Degradation of societies / individualism

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HJK 414
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Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by HJK 414 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:58 am

Earlier this week I posted the following statement in the Heat wave thread:

Climate Change Has Run Its Course
Its descent into social-justice identity politics is the last gasp of a cause that has lost its vitality


Has the Climate change debate lost it's value ? or it's importance ? - of course not - but the hysteria and platitudes used by many that could not decipher a climate report / and it's relevance - even if they were forced to read it - has made the topic toxic to a point that many have turned their backs.

I made the statement because we are seemingly loosing our capacity to discuss matters when we do not agree.
Terms such as Deniers (thereby placing your opinion in the wind as the only "truth" ?) / Racist (you suddenly have superior intellect ?) / Xenophobe and many more alike terms are being used randomly and the value of every debate get's drawn down into a personality contest.

Yesterday we had a mass shooting in El Paso

The gunfire that tore through a Walmart jammed with back-to-school shoppers on Saturday marked another bleak milestone in a nation pocked by gun violence: the 250th mass shooting of 2019.
And the rampage in El Paso, which left 20 dead and 26 injured, notched an even darker statistic: It occurred on the 215th day of the year, meaning there have been more mass shootings than days so far this year.


How the hell is this possible you would ask....
Well - as long as a President of the USA calls immigrants Rapists / Murderers and profiteers - the scene is quickly set.
We see Politicians in Europe leaning in the same way - and the trend line is worrying.

Perhaps this shooting is another point of reflection for us ??
We are sinking into a manner of interaction that is causing friction and these frictions are causing a social identity separation that is not serving anyone - in any way.

Have a nice day - and count your blessings
There is much to be thankful for …..

JK
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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:32 am

HJK
Spot on with the analysis.
Add to the mix of everyone trying to be "Oh so PC" that they identify themselves with the other side and loose their own identity in the process and you have a world without a compass.
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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by vanjast » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:10 am

HJK 414 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:58 am
Well - as long as a President of the USA calls immigrants Rapists / Murderers and profiteers - the scene is quickly set.
We see Politicians in Europe leaning in the same way - and the trend line is worrying.
Not the case.. POTUS/politicians do not say what is not already out there... they know they would not be in office long after.

Illegal immigrants or immigrants given a 'free pass', bypass the 'check system' that determines their contribution and employment viability.
Bypassing this make them 'un-employable' and most end up doing crime.
Also the locals do not take to mass immigration, and react by rejecting these people... it's only natural.

The real problem are the people/organisations that are trying to enforce immigration/diversity 'unnaturally'.
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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by Jean Crous » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:26 am

vanjast wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:10 am
HJK 414 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:58 am
Well - as long as a President of the USA calls immigrants Rapists / Murderers and profiteers - the scene is quickly set.
We see Politicians in Europe leaning in the same way - and the trend line is worrying.
Not the case.. POTUS/politicians do not say what is not already out there... they know they would not be in office long after.

Illegal immigrants or immigrants given a 'free pass', bypass the 'check system' that determines their contribution and employment viability.
Bypassing this make them 'un-employable' and most end up doing crime.
Also the locals do not take to mass immigration, and react by rejecting these people... it's only natural.

The real problem are the people/organisations that are trying to enforce immigration/diversity 'unnaturally'.
Spot on meneer, and it is this same group/organisation that is so hell bent on destroying national pride in the various cultures.
National pride and individualism is considered being FUNDAMENTALIST by these people, and is classed as being akin to a Nazi.
The world is a fast changing place :shock: :?
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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by HJK 414 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:47 am

vanjast wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:10 am


Not the case.. POTUS/politicians do not say what is not already out there....
………...
vanjast,

I have a problem with politicians generalizing a group of immigrants as thieves and rapists - whatever the case - as it polarises a society.

If they are illegal - enforce the law send them home - no issues with that - but do not descend into a "social justification" by branding them names that would entice political traction. The same is happening in SA - (EFF) and what does it do to better the situation ??

As I posted before - in a broader spectrum - the descent into social-justice identity politics is the last gasp of a "normal" society.
It seems the kid in El Paso - all of 22 yrs old - "did not like immigrants" ….. #-o
But that is just my view.

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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by Wilco » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:13 pm

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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by RiNCEw1ND » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:39 pm

So what do we blame the mass shootings in the USA under Obama on?

Trump is the guy everybody loves to hate. To draw a correlation between these mass shootings and him just doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by danie.e » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:43 pm

To fix it is simple (Instill Discipline) but near impossible (Human rights)
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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by HJK 414 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:14 pm

RiNCEw1ND wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:39 pm
So what do we blame the mass shootings in the USA under Obama on?

Trump is the guy everybody loves to hate. To draw a correlation between these mass shootings and him just doesn't make sense to me.

That is oversimplifying the matter.
I used the remarks by Trump (which I feel are ridiculous for a President to make and inflammatory to the extreme) as an example as this shooting in El Paso was "against Mexican immigrants" by a 21 yr old from Dallas.
If the shooting had been in Italy I would have used some statements by the Politicians there (there are plenty to use), or Geert Wilders had it happened in Holland.

The jest of the post was that we are sinking into a moral judgement society that is "them" and "us".
Be that immigration / wealth / land / climate ……. it is becoming a "normality".
I was and am concerned about the effects it is having and made the post as such.

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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by Orthin Opter » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:20 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:47 am
I have a problem with politicians generalizing a group of immigrants as thieves and rapists - whatever the case - as it polarises a society.
Just to add my oar in the water, stir a bit. Is that not what religion does too?
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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by HJK 414 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:36 pm

Orthin Opter wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:20 pm
HJK 414 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:47 am
I have a problem with politicians generalizing a group of immigrants as thieves and rapists - whatever the case - as it polarises a society.
Just to add my oar in the water, stir a bit. Is that not what religion does too?

Certainly,

We have a serious problem with multi-culturism and integration per example - and most certainly with the Muslim community coming into Northern Europe. (Charlie Hebdo ..!) and the Bataclan shootings...….

It seems to be a sign of the times - yet if we stay with the current shooting - the kid seemingly has declared a text online that he hated immigrants (Hispanics) as they brought crime and injustice to the country.
There are millions of Hispanics in the USA that have worked all their lives - paid taxes and have been the building blocks of that society !!
A spell of 2 minutes on Google would have taught him that Hispanics form the lowest % of incarcerated people in the US.
Black males > 40% / White Males around 39% and Hispanics 19% ….. so one wonders where the "sentiment" against the Hispanics (immigrants), as high up as the White House comes from.

I see it as populism and platitudes...…
Same as in the climate debate ……. as soon as you dare to question the "track" we are on - and seemingly going …… you are a denier - and unworthy … now what happens - do we start shooting those deniers as well ?

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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by Wilco » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:54 pm

spell of 2 minutes on Google would have taught him that Hispanics form the lowest % of incarcerated people in the US.
Black males > 40% / White Males around 39% and Hispanics 19% ….. so one wonders where the "sentiment" against the Hispanics (immigrants), as high up as the White House comes from.

JK

That statistic you presented doesn’t tell the whole (true) story...

Whites make up 70 percent of the population blacks 13; and Hispanics about 15 percent.

So based on that info, let’s break it down.

We have 13 percent of population representing 40 percent of incarcerated population.

15 percent of the population representing 19 percent of the inmates

And 70 percent of the population representing 39 percent of the inmates...

So the Hispanic prison percentage (like the black one) is higher than their respective population percentage.Whereas the white prison population percentage is almost half of the white population percentage......
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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by HJK 414 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:32 pm

Wilco wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:54 pm

That statistic you presented doesn’t tell the whole (true) story...

Whites make up 70 percent of the population blacks 13; and Hispanics about 15 percent.

So based on that info, let’s break it down.

We have 13 percent of population representing 40 percent of incarcerated population.

15 percent of the population representing 19 percent of the inmates

And 70 percent of the population representing 39 percent of the inmates...

So the Hispanic prison percentage (like the black one) is higher than their respective population percentage.Whereas the white prison population percentage is almost half of the white population percentage......

Absolutely true Wilco,

But that is often the devil in the detail here on Social media
Once you start decimating figures - the story becomes a murky one....
Bottom line - the Hispanics are at a "low" representation in prisons (half that of the black population)
Yet the current "focus" on the Hispanics in the States / and the Muslims in Europe, has become a disturbing trend.

We seem to have found a way to make everything "personal" is where I am trying to get the message line to.

You do not want Northern African refugees in your country ? - you are a racist … (and any discussion about reasons for "halting the flow" simply becomes overruled by the hysteria mob).

You are questioning the global warming hysteria - you are a denier (the fact that actually reducing the total output CO2 levels would mean denying about a third of the worlds population any progress in their standard of living does not even come into play - platitudes galore - discussion NIL.)

You are questioning the sensibility of electric vehicles as we are raping the earth for minerals and raw materials to make batteries - which will cost a multiple factor of their weight in CO2 emissions to get rid of again ….You are a non believer and a climate terrorist ….

We have not seen as much political violence and activism as in the US in the last 4 years for a long time - and that is now being done by the left (those that were preaching all the peace and understanding and political correctness) - but suddenly it is "allright", as we seem to have a "valid reason" to object...….and to hell with the sanctity of other people's property.

It has all become "personal" and it is a trend that concerns me.

JK
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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by Wilco » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:45 pm

Well said HJK.
I agree 100 percent with you.

Only time will tell if this is the beginning of the descent into a dystopian society/future.

If you have time, watch this podcast. Joe Rogan has a lot of different interesting guests on.

Tim Pool is a left of center guy with rational views but has been attacked as of late by the lefty mob for having wait for it - a rational view

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=02ux1dKNPXo
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Re: Degradation of societies / individualism

Unread post by MadMacs » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:10 pm

What you are seeing with the immigrant situation is really the result of American regime change wars which started with the first attempt at overthrowing Iran and Syria in the 50s Here is an interesting discussion

I'm not old, I'm 18 with 46 years of experience :D

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