Helicopters and Hunting

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Airwayfreak
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:13 am

Swartbok wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:15 pm


Well we all understood it that fences in general, even farmers fences are a problem, and responded accordingly, because I’m sure if you go back far enough, any fence constructed would impede migratory routes and territories.

Apologies then, I assumed you were the bad kind of conservationist (you know, the kind that posts photos of hunters to name and shame them and destroy their lives), turns out then you may be one of the good conservationists that would advocate hunting at conferences and in public.

Not sure why I made that assumption at all.
No foul, no fret. I would not go as far as saying I would advocate hunting because I personally do not enjoy hunting at all. But we live in a multidimensional society where we all have to be tolerant of each other's interests and pastimes, providing these are constrained within acceptable parameters.
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Marius Schrenk
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:37 pm

See my post of 21 Aug. I'm still waiting to hear how you Timbavati/Klaserie guy's identify which animals are yours and which belong to the taxpayers ??(when you hunt or "cull" them for your own accounts :roll:) If you did not remove your fences with the KNP to increase their grazing area,why did you do it....and what did you get in return ?? Where are you planning to keep the "donated" animals you suggested earlier "conservation minded private individuals" should donate to for commiting the sin of keeping wild animals for a profit.(if you already have to "cull" yours to "conserve" your available grazing ? :? )
Politics attracts crooks and lawyers,most of the time its the same person.
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:45 am

Marius Schrenk wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:37 pm
See my post of 21 Aug. I'm still waiting to hear how you Timbavati/Klaserie guy's identify which animals are yours and which belong to the taxpayers ??(when you hunt or "cull" them for your own accounts :roll:) If you did not remove your fences with the KNP to increase their grazing area,why did you do it....and what did you get in return ?? Where are you planning to keep the "donated" animals you suggested earlier "conservation minded private individuals" should donate to for commiting the sin of keeping wild animals for a profit.(if you already have to "cull" yours to "conserve" your available grazing ? :? )
Quite simple really. MONEY !! The Timbavati/Klaserie is/was owned by some pretty important businessmen whose names I will not mention. The area was always subject to potential land claims by local residents, so before this became an issue, said important businessmen had a quiet chat with their politically connected mates and politicians and had the fences removed to automatically incorporate the entire Klaserie/Timbavati within the greater KNP and POOF !! land claims threat removed. Ownership of the game became a minor issue because I have to pay for every impala I shoot regardless if it has a taxpayers or a private owners number plate on its bum.

I hasten to add that this does not mean I can go on a free for all hunting expedition either. We have a quota of 1 impala per month, some guys pay for more to shoot more, but the quotas are there to ensure the sustainability of the stock.

Also, are you one of those okes suing Red Bull for false advertising because Red Bull has never given you wings? I merely suggested the donation of say 10 zebras for every 100 bred for hunting in a hypothetical sense.
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:38 am

Airwayfreak wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:45 am
Marius Schrenk wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:37 pm
See my post of 21 Aug. I'm still waiting to hear how you Timbavati/Klaserie guy's identify which animals are yours and which belong to the taxpayers ??(when you hunt or "cull" them for your own accounts :roll:) If you did not remove your fences with the KNP to increase their grazing area,why did you do it....and what did you get in return ?? Where are you planning to keep the "donated" animals you suggested earlier "conservation minded private individuals" should donate to for commiting the sin of keeping wild animals for a profit.(if you already have to "cull" yours to "conserve" your available grazing ? :? )
Quite simple really. MONEY !! The Timbavati/Klaserie is/was owned by some pretty important businessmen whose names I will not mention. The area was always subject to potential land claims by local residents, so before this became an issue, said important businessmen had a quiet chat with their politically connected mates and politicians and had the fences removed to automatically incorporate the entire Klaserie/Timbavati within the greater KNP and POOF !! land claims threat removed. Ownership of the game became a minor issue because I have to pay for every impala I shoot regardless if it has a taxpayers or a private owners number plate on its bum.

I hasten to add that this does not mean I can go on a free for all hunting expedition either. We have a quota of 1 impala per month, some guys pay for more to shoot more, but the quotas are there to ensure the sustainability of the stock.

Also, are you one of those okes suing Red Bull for false advertising because Red Bull has never given you wings? I merely suggested the donation of say 10 zebras for every 100 bred for hunting in a hypothetical sense.
Okay then I do get your post about game farming not being "conservation". We both shoot(or cull) them.We both make money out of them. Its only our "intentions" that differ.(and a warm feeling of superiority because our definition of "conservation"makes us less blood thirsty) The "conservationists" also has a much cheaper solution to "sustainability" they do not spend money during droughts and overwintering to preserve (conserve?) their best genepool. They simply shoot (cull) them. After the winter/drought...they automatically get new animals from the neighbours .....the taxpayers. Quiet simple.....no costs. I like the conservation model more and more. I would soon start canvassing rich donors.....or the taxpayers. :roll:
Last edited by Marius Schrenk on Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:45 am

Marius Schrenk wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:38 am

Okay then I do get your post about game farming not being "conservation". We both shoot(or cull) them.We both make money out of them. Its only our "intentions" that differ.(and a worm feeling of superiority because our definition of "conservation"makes us less blood thirsty) The "conservationists" also has a much cheaper solution to "sustainability" they do not spend money during droughts and overwintering to preserve (conserve?) their best genepool. They simply shoot (cull) them. After the winter/drought...they automatically get new animals from the neighbours .....the taxpayers. Quiet simple.....no costs. I like the conservation model more and more. I would soon start canvassing rich donors.....or the taxpayers. :roll:
Yoh, the mind boggles. So many assumptions, so few facts.
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Marius Schrenk
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:15 pm

Airwayfreak wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:45 am
Marius Schrenk wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:38 am

Okay then I do get your post about game farming not being "conservation". We both shoot(or cull) them.We both make money out of them. Its only our "intentions" that differ.(and a worm feeling of superiority because our definition of "conservation"makes us less blood thirsty) The "conservationists" also has a much cheaper solution to "sustainability" they do not spend money during droughts and overwintering to preserve (conserve?) their best genepool. They simply shoot (cull) them. After the winter/drought...they automatically get new animals from the neighbours .....the taxpayers. Quiet simple.....no costs. I like the conservation model more and more. I would soon start canvassing rich donors.....or the taxpayers. :roll:
Yoh, the mind boggles. So many assumptions, so few facts.
Is it a fact that you "share" the animals of the KNP or not? Do you feed animals during droughts ? Who keeps the money for the animals you shoot and pay for...the KNP(us taxpayers) or the "conservation" unit.? Do you "conserve" your genepool.?...If yes...how ?
Politics attracts crooks and lawyers,most of the time its the same person.
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:18 am

Marius Schrenk wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:15 pm
Airwayfreak wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:45 am
Marius Schrenk wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:38 am

Okay then I do get your post about game farming not being "conservation". We both shoot(or cull) them.We both make money out of them. Its only our "intentions" that differ.(and a worm feeling of superiority because our definition of "conservation"makes us less blood thirsty) The "conservationists" also has a much cheaper solution to "sustainability" they do not spend money during droughts and overwintering to preserve (conserve?) their best genepool. They simply shoot (cull) them. After the winter/drought...they automatically get new animals from the neighbours .....the taxpayers. Quiet simple.....no costs. I like the conservation model more and more. I would soon start canvassing rich donors.....or the taxpayers. :roll:
Yoh, the mind boggles. So many assumptions, so few facts.
Is it a fact that you "share" the animals of the KNP or not? Do you feed animals during droughts ? Who keeps the money for the animals you shoot and pay for...the KNP(us taxpayers) or the "conservation" unit.? Do you "conserve" your genepool.?...If yes...how ?
I am always amused at how members of social media forums suffer from this misconception that they have a right to interrogate fellow members and demand answers to their questions. I'll tell you what Mr Schrenk, you appear to be a chap with access to some resources other than questioning me. Whatever I tell you, you will seek out further lines of argument so I am not inclined to indulge you further on this. Why don't you do some research on your own steam to satisfy your own curiosity? I know it must be bugging you that you cannot blame this on your favourite hobby-horse, the cANCer either.
To the other members who kept this debate amiable, thanks so much
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:35 pm

Okay I get it....you know the answers but its getting a little hot in the kitchen. I thought as much. Happy hunting....the taxpayers animals.
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Fransw
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Fransw » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:44 pm

Any news on the very important decision Cites are busy making as we speak?
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:31 pm

Marius Schrenk wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:35 pm
Okay I get it....you know the answers but its getting a little hot in the kitchen. I thought as much. Happy hunting....the taxpayers animals.
Not getting hot in the kitchen at all. I just cannot be bothered dealing with trolls intent on antagonising for the sake of antagonising. Why not rather say you are incapable of doing the little research that will very easily indicate the real facts and not those created in what is clearly a very powerful imagination
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:54 pm

Fransw wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:44 pm
Any news on the very important decision Cites are busy making as we speak?
I know trade in pangolin has been banned. I usually receive the documents about a week after the meetings have taken place. I know the CITES standing committee meeting is scheduled for tomorrow but this meeting normally only handles administrative issues.

Just a word on CITES. I view CITES with the same suspicion I view GreenPeace. Next time you see GreenPeace fundraising in shopping malls, ask one of their people if they know who their funders are. I think many will be astounded when they get told the facts.

As for CITES, one of my biggest beefs was when the KNP requested a temporary release to sell off stocks of elephant tusk ostensibly obtained from culling operations in the KNP. But I happen to know that said tusks were actually from Botswana and CITES happily agreed to the temporary release. They do good work, but as with anything, money is the deciding factor.
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Fransw » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:01 pm

Airwayfreak wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:54 pm
Fransw wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:44 pm
Any news on the very important decision Cites are busy making as we speak?
I know trade in pangolin has been banned. I usually receive the documents about a week after the meetings have taken place. I know the CITES standing committee meeting is scheduled for tomorrow but this meeting normally only handles administrative issues.

Just a word on CITES. I view CITES with the same suspicion I view GreenPeace. Next time you see GreenPeace fundraising in shopping malls, ask one of their people if they know who their funders are. I think many will be astounded when they get told the facts.

As for CITES, one of my biggest beefs was when the KNP requested a temporary release to sell off stocks of elephant tusk ostensibly obtained from culling operations in the KNP. But I happen to know that said tusks were actually from Botswana and CITES happily agreed to the temporary release. They do good work, but as with anything, money is the deciding factor.
I was under the impression they are making a decision on rhino horn trade today. I have read it somewhere. Can't find the article now..
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:57 am

Fransw wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:01 pm

I was under the impression they are making a decision on rhino horn trade today. I have read it somewhere. Can't find the article now..
Yes, rhino horn trade was on a working group's agenda. As soon as I get the document, I'll share it here.
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Swartbok » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:17 am

Flying is like sex. I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I could stand.
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Re: Helicopters and Hunting

Unread post by Fransw » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:34 pm

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