Helicopters and Hunting

[Marius Schrenk]

Somehow I do not get what the greenies are all about. They prefer to paint a picture of a murderous thug whenever a hunter is discussed.I have not met one (I do not let RSA brady & coke hunters past my gate). Somehow its reprehensible to make a life from wild life but not from domesticated animals...or worst monoculture plants or even worst veggies (kept alive by poisoning the soil) If they can just tell me what they suggest should happen to old animals once the farm has duplicated its original number of animals after 3 years. ??? and how the operation should be sustainably be financed. Please try and keep the emotion out of it.

[Marius Schrenk]

So do you know Ron Thomson....and his theories....how do you feel about them??

The key question here is does he have a helo pilot's licence?

I do not know....google him.

[Airwayfreak]

So do you know Ron Thomson....and his theories....how do you feel about them??

Totally concur with the Green Alliance. Why do you think I mentioned the Scandanavian girls paying to feed hippos at Moholoholo and being told they are conserving animals. I agree with Ron's stance against CITES as well.

[Marius Schrenk]

So do you know Ron Thomson....and his theories....how do you feel about them??

Totally concur with the Green Alliance. Why do you think I mentioned the Scandanavian girls paying to feed hippos at Moholoholo and being told they are conserving animals. I agree with Ron's stance against CITES as well.

Now we are making progress.

[Airwayfreak]

For those that do not know of Ron, biologist, conservationist, author etc etc. He has created a pragmatic stance on hunting and conservation but he is quite clear that these are two totally seperate issues and are mutually exclusive. This is my point as well. I have no problem with hunting at all. I thought I conveyed this quite clearly because hunting brings in foreign currency, employs people and is a sustainable business model. Conservation organisations need to work with the hunting fraternity and vice versa to ensure this sustainability.

But nobody has ever shown me exactly how hunting supports conservation because it simply doesn't.

It's similar to the science/religion argument

[Marius Schrenk]

You should read CAfrica above again....slowly. If private ownership increased game numbers from 800 000 in 1954 to 18 mil in 1974 what does that mean to you. ??? a Failure ?. Behind this figures are hundreds of thousands of ha's of rundown cattle and sheep farms returned to nature.(private investment without any burden on the taxpayer) What I experienced is an increase in birds/birds of pray/dung beetle/guinea/oxpeckers/ fowl/badgers/bee's/porcupines/Leopards/jackal/lyncs .....the moment you remove domestic animals and their accompanying chemicals (poisons). It has to be financed in a SUSTAINABLE way. What other way than selling the animals that graze the plants. ??? If that is not benefiting "conservation" I do not know how you want to negate it.

[SlowApproach]

Why do these kinds of topics always result in some kind of circular reasoning and/or Straw man arguments? As I've said before, a reasonable man has no issue with anyone making a living from animals. The issue (to me, at least) is about KILLING FOR FUN (read: personal pleasure) and then making out that this a normal and thus acceptable lifestyle that others should put up with. In other words, the kind of clientele such a business is likely to attract, either by design or by accident.

Also, personally, I'm not convinced that game farming has anything really to do with conservation. (Look up the word and origin of the term "game" as applied to animals). To me the "conserving" part is just a particular method of ensuring ready stock, i.e. "product availability". The thriving of certain other species as a result is just an unintended (but often welcome) consequence of the operation.

[krjockey]

But nobody has ever shown me exactly how hunting supports conservation because it simply doesn't.

Many conservation areas would simply not exist if it werent for hunting. I am not referring to areas like Timbavati that is best suited for photographic safaris. Take a look at Coutada in Mozambique that introduced 24 lions in the Zambesi Delta recently, an area that have not seen lions in decades. The company managing that area also fly daily anti poaching patrols by helicopter and all species including plants fish and mammals, small and large benefit from this. All that is funded by money generated solely from trophy hunting.

[Ugly Duckling]

My Boet has a lease on a 440 Ha farm which he has stocked with game. The returns over the past 8 years have varied between the different species.
I enjoy the bush with him but am not the hunting type of guy. I enjoy the biltong and salami when it is passed around. To each his own.

[Airwayfreak]

All that is funded by money generated solely from trophy hunting.

Not true at all. This project was funded by the Cabela Family Trust, Marromeu Safaris, the Ivan Carter Wildlife Conservation Alliance and Zambeze Delta Safaris. The bulk of the money came from the Cabela family trust and Ivan Carter. The contributions from the two hunting concessions, as I understand it, were mainly from the hunting levies and logistical support

So to say this project was funded solely from hunting is wrong

[Jack Welles]

... and never the twain shall meet.

(with apologies to Rudyard Kipling)

[Marius Schrenk]

All that is funded by money generated solely from trophy hunting.

Not true at all. This project was funded by the Cabela Family Trust, Marromeu Safaris, the Ivan Carter Wildlife Conservation Alliance and Zambeze Delta Safaris. The bulk of the money came from the Cabela family trust and Ivan Carter. The contributions from the two hunting concessions, as I understand it, were mainly from the hunting levies and logistical support

So to say this project was funded solely from hunting is wrong

Help me out here...isn't Cabelas one of the world's most successful hunting outfitters ?....and would the "contribution from the two HUNTING concessions" not be the availability of animals to HUNT into the distant future ?

[Airwayfreak]

Help me out here...isn't Cabelas one of the world's most successful hunting outfitters ?....and would the "contribution from the two HUNTING concessions" not be the availability of animals to HUNT into the distant future ?

Yep. Dick Cabela founded Cabelas. But we are talking about DIRECT support.

So you reckon you conserve an animal by shooting it?

[Jack Welles]

Help me out here...isn't Cabelas one of the world's most successful hunting outfitters ?....and would the "contribution from the two HUNTING concessions" not be the availability of animals to HUNT into the distant future ?

Yep. Dick Cabela founded Cabelas. So you reckon you conserve an animal by shooting it?

You help to conserve a species by making money from shooting individual animals in order to finance the propogation of more of the species. The greater good and all of that ...

[Airwayfreak]

You help to conserve a species by making money from shooting individual animals in order to finance the propogation of more of the species. The greater good and all of that ...

Not when 100% of the animals bred to be hunted are ultimately hunted. If, say, the hunting farms donate 10 zebra to a conservancy for every 100 bred for hunting or for every R 100 000 paid to hunting concessions by hunters, R 10 000 is paid to a conservation organisation, your argument may have merit, but we know this does not happen.

We should just agree that hunting and conservation are two totally separate endeavours.