Strict SAA in the 70's

[excolonial]

Excolonel, with this post you're actually agreeing with Falalel's statement..

Yes, all except the first line. thanks for the promotion too, I am more likely to be cannon fodder than Colonel.

[HAAN]

Cabin crew are there for your safety then only comes service.....
Flew SAA last month, cant compliment them enough on their service, that said one of the Cabin Crew
had to move sideways to get through the galley area, she would definitely not fit through an over-wing exit.
So where do you draw the line. Why is this allowed....Unions?????

Lots of Carriers in the Middle east and Asia only make clothes up to a certain size, thus if you don't fit in them you dont fly!

[Whirly]

Cabin crew are there for your safety then only comes service.....
Flew SAA last month, cant compliment them enough on their service, that said one of the Cabin Crew
had to move sideways to get through the galley area, she would definitely not fit through an over-wing exit.
So where do you draw the line. Why is this allowed....Unions?????

Lots of Carriers in the Middle east and Asia only make clothes up to a certain size, thus if you don't fit in them you dont fly!

Maybe she could be used as a flotation device?

Whirly.

[Fransw]

Cabin crew are there for your safety then only comes service.....
Flew SAA last month, cant compliment them enough on their service, that said one of the Cabin Crew
had to move sideways to get through the galley area, she would definitely not fit through an over-wing exit.
So where do you draw the line. Why is this allowed....Unions?????

Lots of Carriers in the Middle east and Asia only make clothes up to a certain size, thus if you don't fit in them you dont fly!

Well, that's a safety risk imo..

[excolonial]

Likewise the minimum height requirement. A simple question of ability to perform the job safely and adequately.

[Jean Crous]

Perhaps a case of "HHhmmm that hostie job suits me just fine......" but the question remains, "Do I suit the job ? "
This said with reference to the above posts regarding weigh/size and how tall .
Jean.

[Falafel]

Interesting take on things considering we (the mid forties) are products of the '70's and therefore we are the very ones responsible for bringing up the misguided youth of today... maybe WE are at fault for the demise of this generation...

Frankly I find my peers (40's and others) severely lacking Honesty, Integrity and a handshake is my word, my bond... dont believe its just the youth who you imply are lacking in this regard... the youth should not be an easy target here... society as a whole has degenerated and not the "new generation" and yes that includes the youth of the 70's

Indeed.

Anecdotally, the most entitled behaviour I've seen has been from the boomer generation. Especially toward service staff. I've also seen plenty of broken promises, cons, outright theft, and other bad behaviour from the 'word is my bond' types.

Millennials and Generation Z are in my experience usually much more empathetic in the way they treat others. Generation X is a split. I would not say society is worse today as a whole, because there are definitely areas where we've progressed. I'd say it's a mix with some good and some bad.

Of course as with any 'generational' debate this is hugely stereotypical and coloured by our own personal experiences, which naturally are more favourable to whichever generation we are from.

With regard to the original topic, as HAAN said cabin crew have a primary job of ensuring safety. It's a demanding job and I care more that you can perform it than what you look like, provided you're physically fit enough to handle the safety tasks.

[Rooster]

Google Jordan Pietersen.
He basically describes how today's entitled, selfish behaviour stems from the active liberal targeting of higher learning and other institutions.
So, one generation may not really be the product of the parents in previous generations.....

[Hennie Louw]

Google Jordan Pietersen.
He basically describes how today's entitled, selfish behaviour stems from the active liberal targeting of higher learning and other institutions.
So, one generation may not really be the product of the parents in previous generations.....

Simon Sinek also explains it well:

[cage]

Google Jordan Pietersen.
He basically describes how today's entitled, selfish behaviour stems from the active liberal targeting of higher learning and other institutions.
So, one generation may not really be the product of the parents in previous generations.....

Peterson is a hack, opining far outside his area of expertise based on intentional misreadings of post-modern philosophy and selective cherry-picking and amplification of isolated incidents.

He came to international prominence with his claims that a Canadian law was an Orwellian thought-police instrument that would result in hundreds of people being fined or jailed for innocuous language. According to him it was a certainty based on the law’s wording, which he claimed to understand better than the drafters despite having no legal training. The actual number of people jailed under that law since it was passed? 0.

His books and statements quote a lot from philosophical texts, but he butchers them beyond what anyone who studied them seriously would concur with. In fact if there’s one thing that unites the supporters and detractors of Nietzsche, aside from their chosen subject matter, it’s that Peterson’s claims about Nietzsche make no sense.

There is no vast left-wing conspiracy to corrupt the youth just as there is no vast right-wing conspiracy, there are just all of us trying to figure out the best way to live and shape our societies.

Boomers like to talk about millennials and ‘participation trophies’, for instance. Well, who do you think came up with the idea of participation trophies? Not the millennial children receiving them, but their boomer parents that gave them. Though from another perspective, this was parents trying to keep their childrens’ spirits up, without realising what long-term issues might arise. No broad left-wing conspiracy, no malevolent greater plan, just well-intentioned but misunderstanding parents wanting to do the best they could.

Building and maintaining societies, raising future generations, and preserving ethical foundations is hard work. No nation has gotten it right yet, and every rose-tinted look back at an imagined idyllic past does not see all that was wrong, unjust, and destructive of those eras. At the same time there are things from the past worth preserving, in the true Burkean conservative sense, so a purely progressive approach isn’t ideal either.

The money-grabbing con artists who try to convince us all that the solutions are actually really easy if only we’d blame those other guys over there for screwing it all up are not only incredibly divisive and toxic, but tragic because by spreading the attitude that this is a cultural ‘war’ they’re making it ever more difficult for societies to reach a logical and equitable consensus on major areas of disagreement.

This is what you get when you treat news as entertainment and replace thoughtful public debate with a shallow us-vs-them approach.

[richard C]

Darren

One of the most informed and rational arguments I have read on the topic anywhere, and one of the better arguments I have ever seen penned on Avcom.

Going after the low-hanging fruit of 'liberal-bashing' is just lazy logic - most people involved in this argument (on Avcom) have millennial children, and be they good or bad, they are certainly representative to a large degree of our parenting skills.

Take the time to do some research, and perhaps read a little wider than your usual comfort zone, and you will quickly start to find not only some sense to the behavior of our millennial co-habitants, but also some appreciation.

Start by reading one of the best living novelists in the world today - Barbara Kingsolver - and her latest work "Unsheltered", where she reveals the inevitable economic link between the slow-down of growth and the collapse of capitalism as we know it, and decodes the behavior of her 'fictional' children in how they can hope to survive in it, and more fundamentally, to even have 'hope' for a better future.

The millennials are adapting to be smart and intuitive in ways we can't even acknowledge. We suffer the legacy of policies like apartheid, our children are suffering the legacy of overpopulation, waste, and economic failure. They can't learn from us.

[excolonial]

Peterson is a hack, opining far outside his area of expertise based on intentional misreadings of post-modern philosophy and selective cherry-picking and amplification of isolated incidents.

He came to international prominence with his claims that a Canadian law was an Orwellian thought-police instrument that would result in hundreds of people being fined or jailed for innocuous language. According to him it was a certainty based on the law’s wording, which he claimed to understand better than the drafters despite having no legal training. The actual number of people jailed under that law since it was passed? 0.

His books and statements quote a lot from philosophical texts, but he butchers them beyond what anyone who studied them seriously would concur with. In fact if there’s one thing that unites the supporters and detractors of Nietzsche, aside from their chosen subject matter, it’s that Peterson’s claims about Nietzsche make no sense.

There is no vast left-wing conspiracy to corrupt the youth just as there is no vast right-wing conspiracy, there are just all of us trying to figure out the best way to live and shape our societies.

Boomers like to talk about millennials and ‘participation trophies’, for instance. Well, who do you think came up with the idea of participation trophies? Not the millennial children receiving them, but their boomer parents that gave them. Though from another perspective, this was parents trying to keep their childrens’ spirits up, without realising what long-term issues might arise. No broad left-wing conspiracy, no malevolent greater plan, just well-intentioned but misunderstanding parents wanting to do the best they could.

Building and maintaining societies, raising future generations, and preserving ethical foundations is hard work. No nation has gotten it right yet, and every rose-tinted look back at an imagined idyllic past does not see all that was wrong, unjust, and destructive of those eras. At the same time there are things from the past worth preserving, in the true Burkean conservative sense, so a purely progressive approach isn’t ideal either.

The money-grabbing con artists who try to convince us all that the solutions are actually really easy if only we’d blame those other guys over there for screwing it all up are not only incredibly divisive and toxic, but tragic because by spreading the attitude that this is a cultural ‘war’ they’re making it ever more difficult for societies to reach a logical and equitable consensus on major areas of disagreement.

This is what you get when you treat news as entertainment and replace thoughtful public debate with a shallow us-vs-them approach.

I think the opening line of your response is clear evidence of bias. The simple disregard for Peterson as a hack whilst purporting that some of the sources he quotes dealt in absolutes, or indeed the truth is as preposterous as anything you accuse him of. The study of, or the understanding of anyones works, let alone philosophers and psychologists is prone to complete misunderstanding, bias and subjectivity regardless of who is doing the reading. Frankly I found many of the texts of these oft quoted intellectuals to be nothing more than meaningless meanders through the minds of the authors, who take their often preposterous theories and extrapolate them to the point they become completely meaningless.

You say it should not be them versus us, yet that is precisely what you have just done?

Societal decay in the western world is self evident, only the causes and extent of it are under discussion surely? The cause of the cycles of decay and improvement are many and various and have not a common thread in recent centuries.

I firmly believe that we are seeing the direct results of increasing leftist domination of education (and subsequently the national discourse) during the past few decades, their ideological views are clear to all that care to look for them. But of course, that puts me at odds with the media, and most "centrist" politicians of my generation. The majority of Universities/colleges in Europe and The US, are massively left leaning from the top to the bottom, to suggest otherwise is simply preposterous. This is not a conspiracy perhaps, but it is a problem.

[Darren]

I think the opening line of your response is clear evidence of bias. The simple disregard for Peterson as a hack whilst purporting that some of the sources he quotes dealt in absolutes, or indeed the truth is as preposterous as anything you accuse him of. The study of, or the understanding of anyones works, let alone philosophers and psychologists is prone to complete misunderstanding, bias and subjectivity regardless of who is doing the reading. Frankly I found many of the texts of these oft quoted intellectuals to be nothing more than meaningless meanders through the minds of the authors, who take their often preposterous theories and extrapolate them to the point they become completely meaningless.

I did not say all the sources he quotes deal in absolutes, I said that Peterson misquotes them. Dishonestly and intentionally. I have read his books and watched his lectures, I'm quite comfortable calling him a charlatan.

You say it should not be them versus us, yet that is precisely what you have just done?

Fair question, I don't believe so. I'm telling you that one guy, Peterson, is a hack who's supposed insights are nonsense. I have not, and am not, dismissing the entirety of conservative thought and arguments. There are principled, honest, and thoughtful people on the right just as there are principled, honest, and thoughtful people on the left. He is not one of them.

Societal decay in the western world is self evident, only the causes and extent of it are under discussion surely? The cause of the cycles of decay and improvement are many and various and have not a common thread in recent centuries.

I don't agree with that statement at all. Societal change is self-evident, but decay? In the West, for the most part, crime rates are down, societal measures like abortion rates, divorce rates, etc are at all-time lows. The millennial and Z generations have not turned out to be as useless as once feared with their performance in the military, jobs, et al being just fine. In fact Western militaries are the most disciplined they have ever been if we go by the number of crimes committed in uniform. We have made huge strides in racial, gender, and overall social equality and there's a new focus and attention amongst certain generations to do something about environmental pollution and disasters.

Are there still problems? Of course, the recent turn to populism is evidence enough of that. In some areas there has been too much of a swing in one direction and a correction is inevitable. But everyone is also all-too-willing to forget just how violent and discontented earlier decades were. There's a tendency amongst us all to look back fondly on the years when we were young and judge the present harshly purely because there has been no opportunity for memories about it to fade.

I firmly believe that we are seeing the direct results of increasing leftist domination of education (and subsequently the national discourse) during the past few decades, their ideological views are clear to all that care to look for them. But of course, that puts me at odds with the media, and most "centrist" politicians of my generation. The majority of Universities/colleges in Europe and The US, are massively left leaning from the top to the bottom, to suggest otherwise is simply preposterous. This is not a conspiracy perhaps, but it is a problem.

Again, I cannot agree with this. When last did you attend an American or European university, either in person or virtually, or know someone who has? There are undoubtedly some excesses that exist: 18-19 year olds will always be rather foolish, but by and large the apocalyptic claims about student actions have not actually borne out.

This though is a prime example of what I'm talking about. What is 'leftist domination' anyway? For one, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a half a dozen academic Marxists to agree with one another long enough to dominate anything, for another you write as though it's a conspiracy rather than a natural shift in society's views.

[richard C]

My grandfather lived through the First World War.

My father lived through the Second World War.

I have lived through the Vietnam War and the Cold War with the threat of nuclear annihilation, and continuous unrest in the middle-east.

But it's the millennials who have messed it up ?

Right

[cage]

But it's the millennials who have messed it up ?

Have you seen what all that avo on toast is doing to the rainforest?