Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by cage » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:56 pm

rare bird wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:50 pm
Haha - Cage has grown old quickly! the first time someone called me "oom" I was quite insulted - now they call me "oupa" and I actually miss being called oom!
Your avitar has given me a clue to how they got they missiles/ ordinances through! distract them with pretty ladies with a bomb between their legs!
The first were young Afrikaans kids, that freaked me out a little.
What really hurts is when someone calls me sir - a little piece dies every time ;)

I think you are onto something with the smuggling theory. No wonder there are 72 virgins :smt104
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by Darren » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:15 pm

MadMacs wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:49 pm
Typical main stream media reply.
It appears I have been unmasked and found out.
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by cage » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:23 pm

Darren wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:15 pm
It appears I have been unmasked and found out.
Now get back behind your desk at CNN and get busy, you have gullible minds to feed :twisted:
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by Jack Welles » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:00 am

cage wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:23 pm
Darren wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:15 pm
It appears I have been unmasked and found out.
Now get back behind your desk at CNN and get busy, you have gullible minds to feed :twisted:
Shouldn't that be the CIA, don't they (together with Soros) control everything?
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by Darren » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:02 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:00 am
cage wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:23 pm
Darren wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:15 pm
It appears I have been unmasked and found out.
Now get back behind your desk at CNN and get busy, you have gullible minds to feed :twisted:
Shouldn't that be the CIA, don't they (together with Soros) control everything?
Shhh, don't give away all of our secrets.
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by MadMacs » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:13 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:00 am
cage wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:23 pm
Darren wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:15 pm
It appears I have been unmasked and found out.
Now get back behind your desk at CNN and get busy, you have gullible minds to feed :twisted:
Shouldn't that be the CIA, don't they (together with Soros) control everything?
This idea was first pedalled by the NYT.
I'm not old, I'm 18 with 46 years of experience :D
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by Darren » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:25 am

MadMacs wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:13 am
Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:00 am
cage wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:23 pm

Now get back behind your desk at CNN and get busy, you have gullible minds to feed :twisted:
Shouldn't that be the CIA, don't they (together with Soros) control everything?
This idea was first pedalled by the NYT.
No, it was not. Believe it or not, there's a whole bunch of people who keep track of weapons proliferation and use verifiable techniques like image analysis & commercial satellite imagery to determine what happened independently of what any side claims.

That's why both they, and I, are not saying with certainty the exact sequence of events here but instead pointing to the most likely scenarios with reference to verified past incidents. We're clear about what we don't know, and what we're waiting for further information on.

It's indisputable that the Houthis have been gifted Iranian drones and missiles, you can verify this by seeing videos and imagery from the Houthis themselves showing systems that are made only in Iran. It's also clear that the Houthis have attacked Saudi facilities with weaponised drones, missiles, and rockets, based on statements from both the Houthis and the Saudis and photographs showing wreckage. Neither side is denying it.

So what makes it so certain, in your mind, that this attack must've been a false flag by the US or Saudi Arabia? Where's your evidence?
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by cage » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:34 am

Darren wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:25 am
Where's your evidence?
Pay attention Darren, Kim Dotcom said it is so.
What more do you need? ;)
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by excolonial » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:36 pm

Crossfire here. I think it is fair to say that nothing has been established with certainty. So anything proposed so far is merely a theory. Soros? He is a serial and quite open meddler in the finances and internal politics of many countries. The CIA? Responsible for plenty of bad stuff, sometimes quite overtly, sometimes not.

To rubbish the idea that the CIA is/has not attempted to infiltrate the Media flies in the face of well documented program to do just that?!? Are they the hidden hand behind everything that happens - certainly not, but do discount them out of hand is equally preposterous.
The older I get, the more I am convinced that "A Confederacy of Dunces" is non fiction.
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:37 pm

Caution - graphic content



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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by MadMacs » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:55 pm

Darren wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:25 am
MadMacs wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:13 am
Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:00 am

Shouldn't that be the CIA, don't they (together with Soros) control everything?
This idea was first pedalled by the NYT.
No, it was not. Believe it or not, there's a whole bunch of people who keep track of weapons proliferation and use verifiable techniques like image analysis & commercial satellite imagery to determine what happened independently of what any side claims.

That's why both they, and I, are not saying with certainty the exact sequence of events here but instead pointing to the most likely scenarios with reference to verified past incidents. We're clear about what we don't know, and what we're waiting for further information on.

It's indisputable that the Houthis have been gifted Iranian drones and missiles, you can verify this by seeing videos and imagery from the Houthis themselves showing systems that are made only in Iran. It's also clear that the Houthis have attacked Saudi facilities with weaponised drones, missiles, and rockets, based on statements from both the Houthis and the Saudis and photographs showing wreckage. Neither side is denying it.

So what makes it so certain, in your mind, that this attack must've been a false flag by the US or Saudi Arabia? Where's your evidence?
Yes it did, it was one of the pages that came up in my search when things didn't add up with regard to this incident and double checking RT.

So you're telling me that you have all the data and radar plots and satellite images of this whole incident and yet you cannot categorically prove where those cruise missiles came from?

You say that they smuggled the drones into Saudi with all the equipment and bombs, yet the SAS failed to do the same thing in Iraq - remember Bravo 20? , a highly skilled and well trained team, yet we are to believe some rebels succeeded.

Looking at the satellite images, the damage doesn't seem consistent with any of the weapons mentioned, hence why I'm wary of the mainstream media reports.

As I mentioned in another thread, it is my gut instinct and technical background that tells me something is fishy, I dont have proof but I'm very seldom wrong. I know you work for the military establishment and might have to think and work accordingly to their rules, I have no problem with that and after all this is only my amateur opinion.
I'm not old, I'm 18 with 46 years of experience :D
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by MadMacs » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:03 pm

8 minutes ago, Pompeo has declared the attack on the oil facilities an 'act of war' against SA.

Where have we heard this all before? Just the US looking for an excuse to bomb Iran.
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by Darren » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:42 pm

MadMacs wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:55 pm
Yes it did, it was one of the pages that came up in my search when things didn't add up with regard to this incident and double checking RT.
Your claim was "This idea was first pedalled by the NYT." That is quite different from saying that the NYT article came up when you did a Google search.
So you're telling me that you have all the data and radar plots and satellite images of this whole incident and yet you cannot categorically prove where those cruise missiles came from?
No, read it again. I said we have verifiable evidence from past attacks on Saudi infrastructure by the Houthis, which notably both the Houthis and Saudis have confirmed. Which means that this incident, where we don't yet have verifiable evidence, should still be evaluated in line with past events.
You say that they smuggled the drones into Saudi with all the equipment and bombs, yet the SAS failed to do the same thing in Iraq - remember Bravo 20? , a highly skilled and well trained team, yet we are to believe some rebels succeeded.
I'm saying they have done so before, not that we know for certain it was done in this case. It would not be the first time either: Militants have managed to penetrate Saudi border defences on a number of occasions over the past decade. It's a larger country than Iraq, less easily defended, and Saudi military prowess is not the greatest.

In this case there are some interesting claims of a launch from Iran, especially as Saudi's Patriot missile batteries were moved and oriented south toward Yemen and don't have 360º coverage.
Looking at the satellite images, the damage doesn't seem consistent with any of the weapons mentioned, hence why I'm wary of the mainstream media reports.

As I mentioned in another thread, it is my gut instinct and technical background that tells me something is fishy, I dont have proof but I'm very seldom wrong. I know you work for the military establishment and might have to think and work accordingly to their rules, I have no problem with that and after all this is only my amateur opinion.
Hence the claims of Iranian cruise missiles.

I think you're misreading what I'm saying here.

We're all agreed that this strike is highly unusual. It's far from the Yemeni border and beyond what we know the Houthis to be capable of, both in terms of distance and accuracy.

Where we differ is on assigning plausible (not guaranteed) explanations for this. I see a steadily increasing pattern of Iranian escalation both versus the Saudis and in the Straits of Hormuz, probably designed to exploit what its leaders believe is American weakness and inexperience. With Bolton out the main voice calling for a military strike against them is gone, and while Trump is full of bluster it's rather clear he's prevaricating. At the same time Iran's support to the Houthis has been steadily more and more overt and intensive, to the point where they've transferred actual cruise missiles in the form of the Samour/Quds.

So what's more likely? That this is some weird Saudi/US false flag attack on a Saudi facility, or that it's the next step in the existing pattern of conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia?
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by excolonial » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:50 am

If the Iranians are indeed being provocative, and this was them or directly supported by them, it is indicative that their leadership has a callous disregard for the lives of their people. Surely even the wildest fanatic can see that the Yanks will simply destroy anyone and anything that threatens them in any way? Perhaps they, like Saddam before them, are drinking deeply from the delusion cup about their ability to defend themselves against an attack.

The mind boggles
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Re: Saudi oil facilities bombed by drones

Unread post by Darren » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:43 pm

excolonial wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:50 am
If the Iranians are indeed being provocative, and this was them or directly supported by them, it is indicative that their leadership has a callous disregard for the lives of their people. Surely even the wildest fanatic can see that the Yanks will simply destroy anyone and anything that threatens them in any way? Perhaps they, like Saddam before them, are drinking deeply from the delusion cup about their ability to defend themselves against an attack.

The mind boggles
They do have a rather callous disregard for the lives of their people, but then that's true of a lot of totalitarian states.

However this is based on a strategic calculation on their part that the US response will not be that extreme, and that if any strikes do happen they will be limited in scope and not too damaging. It's not altogether insane and there is some logical merit behind it, although it is very risky especially with a leader like Trump in office.

Saddam's mistake was misreading the US's mood and intentions, and attempting to optimise for a situation where he could deter both the US and Iran. One of the fascinating things that came out of post-war interviews of senior Iraqi commanders was that many of them believed the state did still possess WMDs of some sort, even if their own formations did not. There's some speculation that Saddam encouraged this level of misinformation within his own military ranks because he was deathly afraid that if Iran realised how weak Iraq really was it would be encouraged to attack as retribution for and continuation of the Iran-Iraq War.

If he had just been completely open to inspectors he could've defanged the US push to war, but that would've also shown Iran all of Iraq's real weaknesses.

Grand strategy is fascinating, isn't it?

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