SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Aviation Trivia, Jokes & Humour

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Whirly
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 11845
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:25 pm
Closest Airfield: Ermelo
Location: Mpumalanga
Has liked: 9 times
Been liked: 153 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Whirly » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:34 am

SlowApproach wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:56 am
bosvark wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:46 am
In today's world, do we need a navy?
Absolutely! One of its prime responsibilities in peacetime is policing our seawaters for- and protecting against illegal fishing activities - which are depleting (actually, completely destroying) our fish stocks like never before.

Sadly, yet another absolutely critical responsibility our Government is completely and utterly failing in.
Yes, and according to a Whatapp video showing a Naval Occifer, also to keep the sharks from attacking the swimmers! :lol: :lol: #-o

Whirly.
Every dog needs a home and every home needs a dog (or two or three).
User avatar
Darren
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:56 pm
Closest Airfield: FAOR
Location: JHB
Has liked: 96 times
Been liked: 98 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Darren » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:50 pm

SlowApproach wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:56 am
bosvark wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:46 am
In today's world, do we need a navy?
Absolutely! One of its prime responsibilities in peacetime is policing our seawaters for- and protecting against illegal fishing activities - which are depleting (actually, completely destroying) our fish stocks like never before.

Sadly, yet another absolutely critical responsibility our Government is completely and utterly failing in.
It's a common misconception, but that's actually not the mandate of the SA Navy. The task of preventing and prosecuting illegal fishing belongs to the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries, and Forestry (DAFF) which has its own fleet of patrol ships for the task.

The SA Navy is permitted to assist DAFF in the monitoring and policing of our EEZ for illegal fishing, but only at DAFF's explicit request and according to their overall direction. For instance the SAN may not conduct enforcement against ships suspected of fishing illegally without having a DAFF inspector onboard.

The Navy's mandate, in basic terms, is to defend South Africa's waters against outside attack. Given that 90% of SA's trade comes via sea and an effective naval blockade would cripple the country's economy, that mandate alone is enough to justify its continued existence and level of funding.

Of course the Navy has other peacetime missions and roles including surveying, disaster response, search and rescue, and providing assistance to other departments like DAFF and the SA Maritime Safety Agency (SAMSA) as-needed, but those are secondary to its main purpose.

Incidentally the Navy is actually absurdly cheap for what we get in terms of capability.

The entirety of the Navy, including all ship acquisition costs, receives about R3.6 billion a year in funding.
Total government spending is R1.8 trillion, of which R684 billion goes to national departments, R612 billion goes to provincial governments, and R127 billion goes to local governments.
That means that at present paying for and maintaining the South African Navy's frigates, submarines, patrol vessels, sustainment ships, etc. costs just 0.2% of total government spending and 0.5% of national department spending.
Were the SA Navy to be fully funded as per its mandate, enough to keep all of its ships fully operational and maintained according to the set-down refit and maintenance cycle, we would need to spend around R6.8 billion a year, or 0.37% and 1% of total and national department spending respectively.
Whirly wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:34 am
Yes, and according to a Whatapp video showing a Naval Occifer, also to keep the sharks from attacking the swimmers! :lol: :lol: #-o

Whirly.
I really hate the way this myth continues to exist. What the officer was explaining in the full unedited video was that strategic value of the SAN's submarines was in their value as deterrents, using the analogy of sharks preventing people from swimming as a way to illustrate what deterrence means.

Unfortunately he didn't express himself that well on air, a consequence of being nervous and unused to speaking on live TV, so he jumbled his explanation. A few seconds after he clarified what he meant, but of course that was edited out of the video that's being sent around.

It's really easy to criticise someone in that position, but I've been there and believe me it's really, really easy even for someone like me who speaks English as a first language to fumble a sentence or two on live TV when nervous and under pressure. I'm just fortunate that I haven't had people spreading deceptive edits of those mistakes.
These users liked the author Darren for the post (total 3):
MarsRay WMadMacs
User avatar
SlowApproach
Too Tousand
Too Tousand
Posts: 2842
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 11:01 pm
Closest Airfield: FAGC
Location: Arse-end of Centurion
Has liked: 5 times
Been liked: 74 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by SlowApproach » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:30 pm

Darren, I think you'd better tell them that their public-facing website is misleading then.
To wit:
"Vision & Mission" - "Role of the Navy"
It is this (the Cape Sea Route) route that is the Navy's ward. It is the Navy's duty to police it…. To watch it…. To care for its users - the mercantile fleets of the world.
http://www.navy.mil.za/aboutus/visionmission.htm

A better image of the microscopic one they have accompanying the statement:
sa navy zones.jpg

So while the various departments are busy passing the buck and miring themselves in a bureaucratic bog as to who's responsible for what there is basically NOTHING actually happening to "defend" our marine territories from what is undoubtedly a total onslaught on our fish stocks.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Behind every angry woman is a man who has absolutely no idea what he did wrong.
User avatar
Jack Welles
Tree Tousand
Tree Tousand
Posts: 3857
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:15 pm
Closest Airfield: FACT
Location: Muizenberg
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 188 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Jack Welles » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:42 pm

Darren wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:50 pm
I really hate the way this myth continues to exist. What the officer was explaining in the full unedited video was that strategic value of the SAN's submarines was in their value as deterrents, using the analogy of sharks preventing people from swimming as a way to illustrate what deterrence means.

Unfortunately he didn't express himself that well on air, a consequence of being nervous and unused to speaking on live TV, so he jumbled his explanation. A few seconds after he clarified what he meant, but of course that was edited out of the video that's being sent around.

It's really easy to criticise someone in that position, but I've been there and believe me it's really, really easy even for someone like me who speaks English as a first language to fumble a sentence or two on live TV when nervous and under pressure. I'm just fortunate that I haven't had people spreading deceptive edits of those mistakes.
Sad, isn't it? With malice aforethought they twist where they can and then the rest of their fellow-travellers grasp blindly at anything that feeds into their deliberately dystopian view of SA. [-X
Jack Welles (thriller_author pen name)
https://www.amazon.com/Jack-Welles/e/B073VJQTTX
Eddie Haynes-Smart
Textbook - "The Lore of Negotiation"
http://www.loreofnegotiation.com
User avatar
Darren
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:56 pm
Closest Airfield: FAOR
Location: JHB
Has liked: 96 times
Been liked: 98 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Darren » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:53 pm

SlowApproach wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:30 pm
Darren, I think you'd better tell them that their public-facing website is misleading then.
To wit:
"Vision & Mission" - "Role of the Navy"
It is this (the Cape Sea Route) route that is the Navy's ward. It is the Navy's duty to police it…. To watch it…. To care for its users - the mercantile fleets of the world.
http://www.navy.mil.za/aboutus/visionmission.htm

A better image of the microscopic one they have accompanying the statement:
sa navy zones.jpg
How does that disagree with what I wrote? Defending SA's waters against attack obviously means protecting the maritime trade that transits through it.

The same is true for the various zones they've illustrated. Those are indeed where the SAN's mandate lies, but what you're not taking into account is that there can be multiple separate (and interacting) mandates inside the same area, just as there are on land.
So while the various departments are busy passing the buck and miring themselves in a bureaucratic bog as to who's responsible for what there is basically NOTHING actually happening to "defend" our marine territories from what is undoubtedly a total onslaught on our fish stocks.
That's a false characterisation of the situation, as there's no passing the buck involved because the mandates are clearly defined. As a general principle the Navy, like the rest of the SANDF, is not responsible for law enforcement and may only be used to support the country's civilian law enforcement agencies.

It's the standard international approach. Do you think the US Navy, Royal Australian Navy, Royal Navy, etc are responsible for stopping illegal fishing? Because they're not, in each case there are civilian agencies who are responsible and military support must be specifically asked for on a case-by-case basis if it's needed. Same as in South Africa.
Jack Welles wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:42 pm
Sad, isn't it? With malice aforethought they twist where they can and then the rest of their fellow-travellers grasp blindly at anything that feeds into their deliberately dystopian view of SA. [-X
Could not agree more.
User avatar
Whirly
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 11845
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:25 pm
Closest Airfield: Ermelo
Location: Mpumalanga
Has liked: 9 times
Been liked: 153 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Whirly » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:09 pm

I still think it was funny, nothing else. :lol: :lol:

Whirly.
Every dog needs a home and every home needs a dog (or two or three).
User avatar
Darren
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:56 pm
Closest Airfield: FAOR
Location: JHB
Has liked: 96 times
Been liked: 98 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Darren » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:18 pm

Whirly wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:09 pm
I still think it was funny, nothing else. :lol: :lol:

Whirly.
Not funny for the guy in the video though, or for people’s trust in the Navy.

In this case having a laugh has a real cost.
User avatar
Whirly
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 11845
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:25 pm
Closest Airfield: Ermelo
Location: Mpumalanga
Has liked: 9 times
Been liked: 153 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Whirly » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:24 pm

Darren wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:18 pm
Whirly wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:09 pm
I still think it was funny, nothing else. :lol: :lol:

Whirly.
Not funny for the guy in the video though, or for people’s trust in the Navy.

In this case having a laugh has a real cost.
Don't worry, he did not let me lose trust in the Navy.

Whirly.
Every dog needs a home and every home needs a dog (or two or three).
User avatar
Ray W
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 16866
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:17 pm
Closest Airfield: OR Tambo
Location: Atlasville.
Has liked: 459 times
Been liked: 188 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Ray W » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:51 pm

Isn't the navy also tasked with search & rescue at sea ?
Old age & treachery will triumph over youth & skill
User avatar
Darren
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:56 pm
Closest Airfield: FAOR
Location: JHB
Has liked: 96 times
Been liked: 98 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Darren » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:54 pm

Ray W wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:51 pm
Isn't the navy also tasked with search & rescue at sea ?
Yes. I mentioned that as a peacetime role, though of course it also extends into wartime.
User avatar
Ray W
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 16866
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:17 pm
Closest Airfield: OR Tambo
Location: Atlasville.
Has liked: 459 times
Been liked: 188 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Ray W » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:16 pm

Darren wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:54 pm
Ray W wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:51 pm
Isn't the navy also tasked with search & rescue at sea ?
Yes. I mentioned that as a peacetime role, though of course it also extends into wartime.
Thanks Darren - I didn't see that
Old age & treachery will triumph over youth & skill
User avatar
Darren
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:56 pm
Closest Airfield: FAOR
Location: JHB
Has liked: 96 times
Been liked: 98 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by Darren » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:18 pm

No worries. I hid it most cunningly in a mass of numbers. :oops:
User avatar
MadMacs
Too Tousand
Too Tousand
Posts: 2493
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:41 pm
Closest Airfield: GRJ
Location: On my bed
Has liked: 320 times
Been liked: 59 times

Re: SA Navy Fleet Review 2019

Unread post by MadMacs » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:05 am

Also one must remember that the Cape sea route is one of the most important ones. I remember Dickie Lord mentioning this in one of his books and should the Suez canal be blocked, then this route becomes the only way for shipping between Europe and the East. Piracy is also a huge problem. There is an app, similar to flight radar but for shipping and I was amazed at how many ships use this route.
I'm not old, I'm 18 with 46 years of experience :D

Return to “123.45”