R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by PO » Sun May 21, 2017 1:53 pm

http://maroelamedia.co.za/nuus/sa-nuus/ ... hospitaal/
Daar was 'n harde knalgeluid voor hulle krag verloor het in die helikopter.
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by Christo » Sun May 21, 2017 2:03 pm

So what will prevent a successful autorotation? Low level?
Due to the price increase in ammunition, do not expect a warning shot.

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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by Rotor kop » Sun May 21, 2017 2:10 pm

Christo wrote:So what will prevent a successful autorotation? Low level?
Low level not a problem if you have airspeed. Could well be after a long weekend and your thoughts on other things that he took too long to lower collective after engine died and the rotor rpm dropped below 80% where rotor recovery is almost impossible and a very hard landing will follow...
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by Hunter » Sun May 21, 2017 4:58 pm

This is sad news. I knew the pilot's family well. We grew up on a farm about 15km from Tafelkop near Villiers.

RIP Douw and condolences to the family. We pray for speedy recovery of the survivors.
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by Cornell Blok » Mon May 22, 2017 7:10 pm

PO wrote:http://maroelamedia.co.za/nuus/sa-nuus/ ... hospitaal/
Daar was 'n harde knalgeluid voor hulle krag verloor het in die helikopter.
Any powerlines in the area ?
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by csparksfly » Mon May 22, 2017 8:38 pm

Cornell Blok wrote:
PO wrote:http://maroelamedia.co.za/nuus/sa-nuus/ ... hospitaal/
Daar was 'n harde knalgeluid voor hulle krag verloor het in die helikopter.
Any powerlines in the area ?
... maybe one of the drive belts snapped? (clutch )
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by admin@nexa.co.za » Mon May 22, 2017 11:14 pm

Possible Fan Belt Snap? Only post crash Investigation will tell the true story...... RIP
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by sting » Tue May 23, 2017 6:44 am

csparksfly wrote:
Cornell Blok wrote:
Any powerlines in the area ?
... maybe one of the drive belts snapped? (clutch )
even so, a Auto should have not ended up like this. what might have added was bad light, so a auto gone wrong very bad
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by lodge » Tue May 23, 2017 7:14 am

RIP,
such a sad loss
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by Bobsmyuncle » Tue May 23, 2017 9:17 am

Not having any knowledge of the working parts of these fling wings, if the pilot saw he was running late and pushed the aircraft to it's limits, is there a possibility or likelihood that mechanical/motor failure would occur. In other words is it possible to run the aircraft beyond advisable limits for a sustained period of time?
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by Rotor kop » Tue May 23, 2017 9:24 am

Bobsmyuncle wrote:Not having any knowledge of the working parts of these fling wings, if the pilot saw he was running late and pushed the aircraft to it's limits, is there a possibility or likelihood that mechanical/motor failure would occur. In other words is it possible to run the aircraft beyond advisable limits for a sustained period of time?
It is but no one would do that as it is almost guaranteed you will com second. Similar to trying to do barrel rolls in a windless - you know what the outcome will be before you even try it :idea:
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by csparksfly » Tue May 23, 2017 10:05 am

The setup for the accident could have started a while ago due to engine fatigue as a result of previous engine over speeds - if any.

Over speeds could cause fatigue/stress fractures in the drive train such as the cam shaft, pistons valves etc.
They can easily occur on "difficult" starts i.e. "hot" starts, if the pilot does not ensure proper throttle control.

There is also blade overspeeds...

Pushing the R44 to its limits could mean surpassing the Vne causing retreating blade stall
-or- "pulling" the collective too high causing the engine RPM to decay with eventual rotor RPM decay.

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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by TC » Tue May 23, 2017 10:27 am

csparksfly wrote: Over speeds could cause fatigue/stress fractures in the drive train such as the cam shaft, pistons valves etc.
They can easily occur on "difficult" starts i.e. "hot" starts, if the pilot does not ensure proper throttle control.
.
The R44 has an IO540 motor that normally happily produces 300HP all day, but is de-rated to 245HP for the helicopter installation.

I do not believe that you will be able to do anything to overstress the motor without doing major structural damage to the rotor or drive first.
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by Winchman » Tue May 23, 2017 10:42 am

I am not a helicopter pilot but Ifollow incident investigations and reports with interest and the circumstances here bring to mind a number of R44 incidents both local and abroad involving flex plate failure and the SACAA issued a Maintenance Advisory Notice on the subject in 2013 following three incidents attributable to flex plate failure. Sudden noise followed by loss of control brought this to mind. Would anyone in the know perhaps care to comment?
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Re: R44 down. Heilbron - Koppies Area

Unread post by cage » Tue May 23, 2017 11:13 am

TC wrote:
csparksfly wrote: Over speeds could cause fatigue/stress fractures in the drive train such as the cam shaft, pistons valves etc.
They can easily occur on "difficult" starts i.e. "hot" starts, if the pilot does not ensure proper throttle control.
.
The R44 has an IO540 motor that normally happily produces 300HP all day, but is de-rated to 245HP for the helicopter installation.

I do not believe that you will be able to do anything to overstress the motor without doing major structural damage to the rotor or drive first.
They're not difficult to over-torque if you're being dof but then you'd see a bit of a skeef line at the back when you preflight.
It's probably more appropriate understanding what maintenance had been done.
Like the Robbie in Durban which came down when the fuel line came loose in flight following maintenance that was not thorough.

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