Low flying again

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BobD
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by BobD » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:05 am

Bront wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:12 am
Hexapilot you need to get your hearing tested if you can't hear a low flying helicopter or light aircraft approaching!
Actually Bront. I fly at a samaa registered flying club and often we have low flying full size aircraft flying over our club. Even though we are on your dont fly low notams. Yes the rule is give way to a full size aircraft, but often when you are flying you can't hear it. It is normally a non flying member that runs out and tells us to hit the deck. When you are flying your rc plane in a gaggle of rc planes your situational awareness is not looking for anything coming outside of the prescribed circuit. Club rules follow the circuit, especially newbies can't take their eyes of their plane or they lose it and crash. Full size planes and helis sneak up fast because you are fast to us standing on the ground and concentrating on a moving speck. You chaps in full size need to realise that we also have a right to the sky in our designated areas and respect that.

Times are changing and drones are here to stay. It's good advice that beaches will have drones fly low at your peril.
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by Bront » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:12 am

BobD wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:05 am
Bront wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:12 am
Hexapilot you need to get your hearing tested if you can't hear a low flying helicopter or light aircraft approaching!
Actually Bront. I fly at a samaa registered flying club and often we have low flying full size aircraft flying over our club. Even though we are on your dont fly low notams. Yes the rule is give way to a full size aircraft, but often when you are flying you can't hear it. It is normally a non flying member that runs out and tells us to hit the deck. When you are flying your rc plane in a gaggle of rc planes your situational awareness is not looking for anything coming outside of the prescribed circuit. Club rules follow the circuit, especially newbies can't take their eyes of their plane or they lose it and crash. Full size planes and helis sneak up fast because you are fast to us standing on the ground and concentrating on a moving speck. You chaps in full size need to realise that we also have a right to the sky in our designated areas and respect that.

Times are changing and drones are here to stay. It's good advice that beaches will have drones fly low at your peril.
And that is the whole problem! The pilot of the drone is so in the zone that they have no situational awareness whatsoever. If Hugo's sister in law can't hear 2 Orxy's coming then god help us. If you as a drone pilot can't maintain complete situational awareness then you need to have a bystander than can. Making excuses that you didn't hear it coming wont help in a court of law if your drone just killed someone.

I'm not talking about guys flying at the SAMAA club.
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by hugo_visser » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:30 am

I am not here for a boxing match, she flies with me in the Alo, has situational awareness, can hear perfectly normal, depends how the wind blows, sun in your eyes, whatever.. Just facts.
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by Anton Nel » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:20 am

Seeing that the fred is slowly morphing into a drone topic, I just want to add that it is a drone "operator" not drone "pilot". One need to sit in a seat behind an instrument panel to "pilot", not so?
Since there is zero skill involved keeping the thing in the air due to its stable flight characteristics and and automated control systems, the functions of the rotor platform for a gimbal and camera, is operated, not piloted. :D :wink:
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by TikkaT3 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:24 am

BobD wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:05 am
Times are changing and drones are here to stay. It's good advice that beaches will have drones fly low at your peril.
Every time I read drone "pilot" I have a chuckle to myself. You can put down the controller and it'll hover in place until the battery is flat and even then it will return and land safely at your feet when the battery gets too low. Referring to 99% of drone types.

They aren't pilots, they are operators or drivers. Retracts from ACTUAL pilots who require AIRMANSHIP and this attitude from Bob reinforces that the average Drone-Jockey has none.

My my this looks like fun and Bob, this will happen in future - LIVE WITH IT
Last edited by Ugly Duckling on Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Embed the Youtube link
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by cage » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:56 am

BobD wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:05 am
... Even though we are on your dont fly low notams.
the notam is to raise awareness that there is model flying in an area, at certain times within an altitude range.
It is NOT a "don't fly" in any respect.

This attitude that aircraft mustn't or shouldn't fly low because a droner may be there is nonsense, we are legally permitted and many operations require it.
We do our best to avoid conflict, one of which is broadcasting intentions. There is no chance of seeing a drone during the day until late, even though we would be looking.
As the less important traffic (as defined by the regs) the onus is on you to operate in a manner that would allow you to respond in time, if you can't do that then go fly somewhere else or not at all.
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by heisan » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:07 pm

cage wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:56 am
BobD wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:05 am
... Even though we are on your dont fly low notams.
the notam is to raise awareness that there is model flying in an area, at certain times within an altitude range.
It is NOT a "don't fly" in any respect.
BobD is probably not a pilot and is not aware of the different types of publication.

SAMAA airfields are all listed in the AIPs, and the airspace is designated as 'do not enter without prior permission'. Usually a 1000'/1nm cylinder around the airfield IIRC.
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by Bobsmyuncle » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:12 pm

Probably as a small aside, as registered aircraft owners we pay annual fees to various organisations including CAA, insurance costs and via the fuel we use contribute substantially to the fiscus. Do drone operators have such costs...I think not and it would be interesting to see what would happen if there was insistance that drone operators take out 3rd party insurance in case there was accidental impact with people or property. I am not against drones and see a very practical application for them...just food for thought!
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by cage » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:46 pm

heisan wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:07 pm

SAMAA airfields are all listed in the AIPs, and the airspace is designated as 'do not enter without prior permission'. Usually a 1000'/1nm cylinder around the airfield IIRC.
They are listed and are considered to be 1nm diameter, with the AIP in front of me I can't see anything in there that states do not enter - it would be impractical given the location of many sites.
(not that any samaa site has been an issue)

http://www.caa.co.za/Aeronautical%20Inf ... nroute.PDF
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heisan
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by heisan » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:22 pm

cage wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:46 pm
heisan wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:07 pm

SAMAA airfields are all listed in the AIPs, and the airspace is designated as 'do not enter without prior permission'. Usually a 1000'/1nm cylinder around the airfield IIRC.
They are listed and are considered to be 1nm diameter, with the AIP in front of me I can't see anything in there that states do not enter - it would be impractical given the location of many sites.
(not that any samaa site has been an issue)

http://www.caa.co.za/Aeronautical%20Inf ... nroute.PDF
5.5-3
Oops - my bad. Looks like that AIP has changed since I last saw it...
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by TikkaT3 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:58 am

heisan wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:07 pm
BobD is probably not a pilot and is not aware of the different types of publication.
He is, he's a Drone/RC "Pilot"! - And he's here to stay, and so are the rest of his buddies, so best we all beware and not fly low so that we can accommodate them!
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by E816 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:32 am

Bobsmyuncle wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:12 pm
Probably as a small aside, as registered aircraft owners we pay annual fees to various organisations including CAA, insurance costs and via the fuel we use contribute substantially to the fiscus. Do drone operators have such costs...I think not and it would be interesting to see what would happen if there was insistance that drone operators take out 3rd party insurance in case there was accidental impact with people or property. I am not against drones and see a very practical application for them...just food for thought!
So the comments about pilots vs operators, although I understand where it stems from, could cause some confusion. I'm guessing the REGS use the terms for consistency.
To answer your question, drone operators do pay annual fees to CAA, insurance and even 3rd party liability insurance, and this would apply to R20k drones upto > R1m drones. Also, operators by law should be on frequency broadcasting their intentions and listening out, just like manned aircraft.
Problem comes in with drone "pilots" (drivers perhaps) who are not licensed and don't understand. Drone pilots have to write the restricted radio license exam as part of their training, which should give them a pretty good idea.
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by Mike0027 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:43 pm

TikkaT3 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:24 am
BobD wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:05 am
Times are changing and drones are here to stay. It's good advice that beaches will have drones fly low at your peril.
Every time I read drone "pilot" I have a chuckle to myself. You can put down the controller and it'll hover in place until the battery is flat and even then it will return and land safely at your feet when the battery gets too low. Referring to 99% of drone types.

They aren't pilots, they are operators or drivers. Retracts from ACTUAL pilots who require AIRMANSHIP and this attitude from Bob reinforces that the average Drone-Jockey has none.


Yawn.......
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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by IcarusZulu » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:56 pm

I have built several drones from scratch and my son flys them FPV - Pilot style.
My next big leap is a fishing drone for myself. GA should not be too scared of these fishing drones.
1) The operator is only there to drop his bait and return.
2) Drones are expensive and the owner dose not want to lose it.
3) No drone owner wants to hit an Avcomer.
4) We have a local SA company building and selling fishing specific drones throughout the globe and they set the altitude limit to 30m less than 100ft. Most SA drone fishermen use this drone due to its low cost and functionality. COUTACOPTER.
5) Although some other fishing drones can be preprogrammed for flight most fishermen prefer to fly manually once altitude is locked.
6) All savvy fishing drone pilots have a kill switch that can be activated should they lose their fishing drone, signal, video feed, danger. Some will drop others will return to base.
7) Although they are focused on their drone doing the drop they can also hear oncoming aircraft. Yes sometimes being close to waves breaking can cause an issue however that’s where eyesight comes into play. Remember they are looking up towards the sky and will surely see an incoming AC.
8) Most AC doing a beat up like this would have flown past to do an inspection. Alerting drone fishermen to their presence.
9) GA in SA like many other countries in the world should not fly below 500ft AGL unless landing, in an emergency, crop spraying, at an aiffield or air shows. There are a few other instances not listed.
10) I think I said it all.....
Engines who needs em anyhow?

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Re: Low flying again

Unread post by TikkaT3 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:25 pm

Mike0027 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:43 pm
TikkaT3 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:24 am
BobD wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:05 am
Times are changing and drones are here to stay. It's good advice that beaches will have drones fly low at your peril.
Every time I read drone "pilot" I have a chuckle to myself. You can put down the controller and it'll hover in place until the battery is flat and even then it will return and land safely at your feet when the battery gets too low. Referring to 99% of drone types.

They aren't pilots, they are operators or drivers. Retracts from ACTUAL pilots who require AIRMANSHIP and this attitude from Bob reinforces that the average Drone-Jockey has none.


Yawn.......
You okes should put Drone Pilot - “Yawn” on your yellow reflective vests instead of “Drone Pilot - Do Not Distract”! Again, you can put down the controller and have a beer, “do not distract” haha. Better, hang your vest off your drone so that it can be seen!!!
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