Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

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tansg
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by tansg » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:24 am

Christopher wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:04 pm
And how about this from former girlfriend:

<Victoria's Secret model Berenice Schkair..."For me this is all very strange. A plane can't disappear just like that"...>

Obviously she never heard about the missing Malaysian flight...this whole thing stinks, doesn't it? Scheduled flight or (turbine) charter would seem to have been more appropriate?
Qualification requirements for a Victoria's Secret Model does not include the necessity to think or be attached to reality. Take it from where comes.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by apollo11 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:32 am

Wonder if he had an instrument rating? He suggests in his FB posts having a little trouble with the ILS... flying a N reg and assuming he did have an FAA IF rating he would have needed to satisfy certain criteria within a 6 month period to keep current, if he was really rusty he would have required a proficiency check if over the 6 months.

Perhaps asking ATC the descend he encountered severe icing, to my knowledge the Malibu has basic ice protection into known icing, perhaps too then he if icing was present maybe his pitot had blocked, forgot to turn pitot heat on,, if he was not current maybe he would not have realized the immediate issues like climbing but watching an increasing ASI or descending and watching a decreasing ASI, so darn easy to get confused when icing issues blocking up the pitot and static system, maybe he had a gyro failure, maybe now not being current having to fly on a limited panel, maybe he had glass and experienced a PFD failure, a lot of maybes but obviously found himself in not friendly weather, became spatially disorientated and broke up in air or hit the sea whilst attempting to recover from an unusual attitude or blocked up pitot trying to avoid a stall pushes the nose down stopped the scan oblivious to the other cues?
Not a pleasant last minute or so... must have been terrifying.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by richard C » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:56 am

We could also assume he was a competent IFR pilot executing a private flight for his celebrity friend, and felt he was operating well within his comfort zone, until a technical issue brought it all to an end.

At the other extreme we could assume he should have recused himself and turned his mate down, saying he was not qualified for the task.

I'm sure it was not a suicide mission, and I am sure most pilots are well aware of their own limitations and in this case, the value of the cargo.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by apollo11 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:15 am

richard C wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:56 am
We could also assume he was a competent IFR pilot executing a private flight for his celebrity friend, and felt he was operating well within his comfort zone, until a technical issue brought it all to an end.

At the other extreme we could assume he should have recused himself and turned his mate down, saying he was not qualified for the task.

I'm sure it was not a suicide mission, and I am sure most pilots are well aware of their own limitations and in this case, the value of the cargo.
Absolutely...
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by AussieFlyBoy » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:49 am

tansg wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:24 am
Christopher wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:04 pm
And how about this from former girlfriend:

<Victoria's Secret model Berenice Schkair..."For me this is all very strange. A plane can't disappear just like that"...>

Obviously she never heard about the missing Malaysian flight...this whole thing stinks, doesn't it? Scheduled flight or (turbine) charter would seem to have been more appropriate?
Qualification requirements for a Victoria's Secret Model does not include the necessity to think or be attached to reality. Take it from where comes.
It could be that, in her grief, she expressed herself never expecting that some Moderators Message:
derogatory comments removed and warning isued
commentators on an aviation forum would be having a go in her time of desperate loss. Take that from where it comes.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by AussieFlyBoy » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:52 am

richard C wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:56 am
We could also assume he was a competent IFR pilot executing a private flight for his celebrity friend, and felt he was operating well within his comfort zone, until a technical issue brought it all to an end.

At the other extreme we could assume he should have recused himself and turned his mate down, saying he was not qualified for the task.

I'm sure it was not a suicide mission, and I am sure most pilots are well aware of their own limitations and in this case, the value of the cargo.
In my opinion this is the most logical post I have read today. =D>
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by jimdavis » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:36 pm

My take is that the pax was not the pilot's mate at all. And at least one report said he was not instrument rated. I suspect the pilot was doing it for the bucks, and probably a bit of reflected fame - 'look at me flying the famous footballer around'.

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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by cage » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:39 pm

richard C wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:56 am
We could also assume he was a competent IFR pilot executing a private flight for his celebrity friend, and felt he was operating well within his comfort zone, until a technical issue brought it all to an end.
Competent is not the same as current, you are talking about a highly perishable skill.
When the pilot was the second choice, was a full time gas-engineer, recent experience seems to be dropping meat bombs and he described himself as "rusty" I would think these would start creating little holes in the cheese.
Competent and capable people don't take a single engine piston aircraft into dangerous conditions at night.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by Roger » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:45 pm

Emiliano Sala: Cushions 'from missing plane' found: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-47058064
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by apollo11 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:19 pm

How on earth did the footballer meet with the pilot I wonder?

What was the circumstances, in my minds eye I see the pilot offering everything when he had nothing to offer, if he had no IF rating for starters in itself no bulletproofing for the conditions that night, night, weather, icing, piston single, he was outgunned before he even took off, if he had technical issues when in that clag more so, even more so tragic for Sala, if the twat of a pilot had decided to fly alone that was his problem, stupid is as stupid does... but I'm also wondering if this pilot had not flown this route a few times already and was pumped up on "well it's a piece of cake"

I think Jim you are probably correct this pilot needed to impress himself and maybe somebody else, I like flew Sala personally man! Had the flight been a success he most likely would have crowed all about it over FB...
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by cage » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:36 pm

Mail is reporting :
Mr Ibbotson, a boiler engineer and part-time pilot, told a friend he was 'a bit rusty' with the instruments of the 35-year-old aircraft and it did not have the licence to carry paying passengers.
The footballer didn't arrange the flight, his agent did.
The club wanted to send him on a commercial airline but the agent decide it was better to send him in a private aircraft.

The gas engineer apparently had financial issues so it was probably too good to pass up on.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by apollo11 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:57 pm

cage wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:36 pm
Mail is reporting :
Mr Ibbotson, a boiler engineer and part-time pilot, told a friend he was 'a bit rusty' with the instruments of the 35-year-old aircraft and it did not have the licence to carry paying passengers.
The footballer didn't arrange the flight, his agent did.
The club wanted to send him on a commercial airline but the agent decide it was better to send him in a private aircraft.

The gas engineer apparently had financial issues so it was probably too good to pass up on.
Wow so many wrongs here, how the heck did the agent get to make that decision, likely the agent was none the wiser assuming the pilot and aircraft were up to the mission... maybe he wanted to avoid airport queues and hassle and thought he was making life easier for Sala, sure hope it was not some little behind the counter deal to get some more money into his pocket, that agent must be feeling pretty rotten (even if it was well-intentioned) but it smacks of a little wheel and deal does it not? And the pilot - man how could he accept that flight well knowing he was not suitably qualified, personally and operationally with charter regs...as you point out though financial issues...
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by richard C » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:27 pm

Would the agent be criminally liable ?

Sala is told 'there's your ride, see you in England'. Sala hi8mself would not have the means or even the motivation to inspect the conditions of the arranged transport himself. His agent takes care of his interests in such transactions, and he would trust that it is done so in a professional and safe manner.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by apollo11 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:10 pm

richard C wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:27 pm
Would the agent be criminally liable ?

Sala is told 'there's your ride, see you in England'. Sala hi8mself would not have the means or even the motivation to inspect the conditions of the arranged transport himself. His agent takes care of his interests in such transactions, and he would trust that it is done so in a professional and safe manner.
Totally, I am sure more will come out as to how the hiring of the pilot came about...
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by GRAHAMW » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:35 pm

apollo11 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:10 pm
richard C wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:27 pm
Would the agent be criminally liable ?

Sala is told 'there's your ride, see you in England'. Sala hi8mself would not have the means or even the motivation to inspect the conditions of the arranged transport himself. His agent takes care of his interests in such transactions, and he would trust that it is done so in a professional and safe manner.
Totally, I am sure more will come out as to how the hiring of the pilot came about...
This from another article:

According to the Daily Mail, Sala's agent, Willie McKay, requested his regular pilot David Henderson, 60, take the Argentinian to Cardiff after he visited his former club Nantes to say goodbye to team-mates and put his dog Nala in kennels ahead moving to the Premier League.

Instead, McKay drafted in David Ibbotson, 59, after asking him: "Do you want to spend a weekend in Nantes?"

The Daily Mail report that Ibbotson, a boiler engineer and part-time pilot, told a friend he did not have the licence to carry paying passengers on the 35-year-old aircraft and said he was "a bit rusty" with its instruments.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/ ... appearance

There are so many grey areas here that it will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.
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