Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by Spoke Eagle » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:52 am

JCA wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:49 am
How is it that State SAR organizations could not find the aircraft but privately funded search parties could and in less than a day.?
They needed our Santjie initialy :wink:
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by Jack Welles » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:31 pm

As a matter of interest Nantes (who sold Sala to Cardiff) are suing the Welsh club for the first instalment of the sale price. AFAIK they are now arguing as to who he belonged to when the aerie went down.

Although the aircraft has been located they haven't recovered the body yet #-o
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by Wonko the Sane » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:10 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:31 pm
As a matter of interest Nantes (who sold Sala to Cardiff) are suing the Welsh club for the first instalment of the sale price. AFAIK they are now arguing as to who he belonged to when the aerie went down.

Although the aircraft has been located they haven't recovered the body yet #-o
Earlier post mentioned one occupant visible in wreckage...any ID..PIC or pax?

Sad that the poor guy has not even been found and money is already taking front stage...like the guy is some piece of goods... disgusting...

W
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by jimdavis » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:19 am

Actually they have recovered a body. They are not disclosing who it is at the moment.

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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by Deanw » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:56 am

Wonko the Sane wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:10 am
Sad that the poor guy has not even been found and money is already taking front stage...like the guy is some piece of goods... disgusting...
That's exactly what it was: A contract of sale, which would have stipulated payment time-frames. If a payment was missed and the seller did nothing, it could be taken as tacit approval of the non-payment and make it more difficult to claim it back later.

The timing may not have been the best, but it was a commercial contract and the legal process in mercantile law proceeds independently.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by Wonko the Sane » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:13 am

Deanw wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:56 am
Wonko the Sane wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:10 am
Sad that the poor guy has not even been found and money is already taking front stage...like the guy is some piece of goods... disgusting...
That's exactly what it was: A contract of sale, which would have stipulated payment time-frames. If a payment was missed and the seller did nothing, it could be taken as tacit approval of the non-payment and make it more difficult to claim it back later.

The timing may not have been the best, but it was a commercial contract and the legal process in mercantile law proceeds independently.
I hate to put it this way, because now I disgust myself... So the mercantile law proceed even if the "goods" :( were not delivered/received

W
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by Deanw » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:58 am

Same issues happen should a house burn down down after the sale agreement has been signed, but prior to transfer at the Deeds Office. Look to the contract to determine when transfer of risk took place. Generally, it is the purchaser that is still responsible, unless the seller failed to take reasonable steps to protect the house.

In this case, the transport arrangements were not made by the seller, but I'm sure all sorts of legal arguments and suits will now be filed. :(
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by Wonko the Sane » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:12 am

Deanw wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:58 am
Same issues happen should a house burn down down after the sale agreement has been signed, but prior to transfer at the Deeds Office. Look to the contract to determine when transfer of risk took place. Generally, it is the purchaser that is still responsible, unless the seller failed to take reasonable steps to protect the house.

In this case, the transport arrangements were not made by the seller, but I'm sure all sorts of legal arguments and suits will now be filed. :(
:( :(

W
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by cage » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:01 pm

Deanw wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:58 am
Same issues happen should a house burn down down after the sale agreement has been signed, but prior to transfer at the Deeds Office. Look to the contract to determine when transfer of risk took place. Generally, it is the purchaser that is still responsible, unless the seller failed to take reasonable steps to protect the house.

In this case, the transport arrangements were not made by the seller, but I'm sure all sorts of legal arguments and suits will now be filed. :(
You can't insure an asset that isn't yours. In the case of property it is on transfer, occupation prior to that is a rental with the seller responsible for the costs (rates, taxes etc) excluding consumables (water and electricity).
It should be no different here, he had either started at the club and was on official duty or not.
When there is a lot of money at stake the lawyers will always come out.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by GRAHAMW » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:43 pm

cage wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:01 pm
Deanw wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:58 am
Same issues happen should a house burn down down after the sale agreement has been signed, but prior to transfer at the Deeds Office. Look to the contract to determine when transfer of risk took place. Generally, it is the purchaser that is still responsible, unless the seller failed to take reasonable steps to protect the house.

In this case, the transport arrangements were not made by the seller, but I'm sure all sorts of legal arguments and suits will now be filed. :(
You can't insure an asset that isn't yours. In the case of property it is on transfer, occupation prior to that is a rental with the seller responsible for the costs (rates, taxes etc) excluding consumables (water and electricity).
It should be no different here, he had either started at the club and was on official duty or not.
When there is a lot of money at stake the lawyers will always come out.
The contract should stipulate when the change of ownership would occur which probably would be a specific date. From what is stated in the articles he had already assumed residence the new club so they will be liable.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by farmpilot » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:57 pm

cage wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:01 pm
Deanw wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:58 am
Same issues happen should a house burn down down after the sale agreement has been signed, but prior to transfer at the Deeds Office. Look to the contract to determine when transfer of risk took place. Generally, it is the purchaser that is still responsible, unless the seller failed to take reasonable steps to protect the house.

In this case, the transport arrangements were not made by the seller, but I'm sure all sorts of legal arguments and suits will now be filed. :(
You can't insure an asset that isn't yours. In the case of property it is on transfer, occupation prior to that is a rental with the seller responsible for the costs (rates, taxes etc) excluding consumables (water and electricity).
It should be no different here, he had either started at the club and was on official duty or not.
When there is a lot of money at stake the lawyers will always come out.
You sure about that? I insure my business partner and he insures me.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by cage » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:04 pm

farmpilot wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:57 pm
You sure about that? I insure my business partner and he insures me.
Different concept, key man insurance is designed for that and it was done with your consent.
Could you walk out on the street and randomly take a policy out on anyone that passes by?
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by farmpilot » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:10 pm

cage wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:04 pm
farmpilot wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:57 pm
You sure about that? I insure my business partner and he insures me.
Different concept, key man insurance is designed for that and it was done with your consent.
Could you walk out on the street and randomly take a policy out on anyone that passes by?
I can insure crew that work for me on film shoots, they are freelance. I can insure third party risks. This guy didn't just 'pass by'
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by Jack Welles » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:10 pm

cage wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:04 pm
farmpilot wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:57 pm
You sure about that? I insure my business partner and he insures me.
Different concept, key man insurance is designed for that and it was done with your consent.
Could you walk out on the street and randomly take a policy out on anyone that passes by?
Correct. The law states that there must be an insurable interest. That's why key-man insurance works. If the insured person shuffles off this mortal coil it could cost money to replace him or her.

EDIT 1: people, assets and third party insurance are all different concepts with different legal rules applying, don't confuse one with 'tuther.
EDIT 2: if there is no insurable interest then it is "gambling".

Caveat: I am not an expert on Insurance Law so the above is AIUI.
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Re: Piper Malibu, which went missing off Alderney in the Channel Islands had footballer Emiliano Sala on board

Unread post by cage » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:20 pm

farmpilot wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:10 pm
I can insure crew that work for me on film shoots, they are freelance. I can insure third party risks. This guy didn't just 'pass by'
You're missing the point.
All of what you stated above you have an interest in, so obviously they can be insured.
You can't insure something you don't have an interest in, whether it be property or people.

The disagreement about the footballer is not about insurance (though hopefully they had) but whether or not he had been "delivered" as his former club still want to be paid.
If his new employer failed to properly insure him, then that is tough luck for them as they still need to pay.

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