Gazelle down at Rand

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Alouette
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by Alouette » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:13 pm

The gazelle is designed for ship operations and has a 30 it cross wind capability at sl. It obviously decreases with altitude, but it is nevertheless very capable. One needs to be trained to use the machine. There is a service bulletin out on the whole matter, unfortunately there are still quick conversions that skip these issues!
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by Fransw » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:33 pm

Is the Gazelle a more advanced machine to fly than the B206/R66 for example?..
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cage
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by cage » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:54 pm

If you are pragmatic then the skills to fly one light helicopter aren't that different to flying the next.
Obviously every machine has it's quirks and handles/responds a little differently so you need to adjust/polish your technique accordingly.
Aircraft like a Gaz are very capable. It is a lot of aircraft for the money, so it's not uncommon to see someone "flying it like they stole it".
Like anything, if you respect an aircraft and stay within your abilities then it will look after you.

Dynamic rollover is a relatively low incidence accident (if you follow the accident reports).
When you eliminate high risk ops and solo students, it is pretty darn uncommon to happen under mundane circumstances.
You need a fair amount of lateral movement, and/or an obstacle, something that waiting to cross a runway shouldn't include.

It is, of course, possible that something went wrong leading to a loss of control.
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by Bearcat » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:04 pm

By this time the main rotors had already been removed by the AMO
Aerospatiale SA-341 Gazelle ZU-RZM at Rand
3 Feb 2019
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by Walter105 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:09 pm

Would that still be fixable?
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cage
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by cage » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:28 pm

Walter105 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:09 pm
Would that still be fixable?
Can't see why not. Depending on the cost, the insurer may just write it off.
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by Bearcat » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:12 pm

Aerospatiale SA-341 Gazelle ZU-RZM
3 Feb 2019
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cage
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by cage » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:19 pm

Bearcat wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:12 pm
Aerospatiale SA-341 Gazelle ZU-RZM
3 Feb 2019
Is the right skid ripped off or just bent underneath?
The rear tube has pushed right through.
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jimdavis
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by jimdavis » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:22 pm

I know very little about choppers, but there seems to be an awful lot of guesswork based on little more than a helicopter lying on its side.

Speculation taken to the nth degree?

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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by JCA » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:23 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:22 pm
I know very little about choppers, but there seems to be an awful lot of guesswork based on little more than a helicopter lying on its side.

Speculation taken to the nth degree?

jim
Jim, Jim, Jim, you have on more than one occasion complained about people complaining about the speculation allowed on AVCOM. It is allowed in the rules! AND encouraged!
Are you perhaps beginning to see the light about what anti-spec protestors are on about??? Me included!
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jimdavis
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by jimdavis » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:56 pm

JCA wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:23 pm
jimdavis wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:22 pm
I know very little about choppers, but there seems to be an awful lot of guesswork based on little more than a helicopter lying on its side.

Speculation taken to the nth degree?

jim
Jim, Jim, Jim, you have on more than one occasion complained about people complaining about the speculation allowed on AVCOM. It is allowed in the rules! AND encouraged!
Are you perhaps beginning to see the light about what anti-spec protestors are on about??? Me included!
Ha ha ha! JCA, JCA, JCA. You make me laugh! I am a great believer in intelligent speculation - I love it and think it is healthy and informative. But wild uninformed guesswork is altogether another beast.

An aeroplane crashes and someone thinks that it was either pilot error a mechanical problem. I agree, it almost certainly was either A or B, but it is hardly intelligent speculation.

It's the same with this chopper prang. All I can gather is that the pilot either mishandled the controls, or there may have been a mechanical problem. D'oh! #-o

But, JCA, I am sure we are actually on the same page! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by cage » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:55 am

If you are going to lament about speculation, then it would also be worth considering what these last 3 posts have added to the discussion.
It seems quite inconsistent to be against speculation yet to be happy to waffle on to the "nth degree" while contributing absolutely nothing to a topic that you are unfamiliar with.
I trust we will see the same consistency in fixed wing threads.
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jimdavis
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by jimdavis » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:30 am

cage wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:55 am
If you are going to lament about speculation, then it would also be worth considering what these last 3 posts have added to the discussion.
It seems quite inconsistent to be against speculation yet to be happy to waffle on to the "nth degree" while contributing absolutely nothing to a topic that you are unfamiliar with.
I trust we will see the same consistency in fixed wing threads.
Read it again. I am criticising wild guesswork, not intelligent speculation. Have a great day. :D

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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by Whirly » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:02 am

Alouette here on AvCom is an expert on Gazelle (and Alo II and III) helicopters, I would listen to what he has to offer.

Sad to see the helicopter in this state, I was admiring it earlier Sunday morning while browsing the "seen at Rand" thread. :(

Think the insurance will write it off though.

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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by Peregrine » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:18 pm

Alouette wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:13 pm
The gazelle is designed for ship operations and has a 30 it cross wind capability at sl. It obviously decreases with altitude, but it is nevertheless very capable. One needs to be trained to use the machine. There is a service bulletin out on the whole matter, unfortunately there are still quick conversions that skip these issues!
Not sure about the ship operations design statement - sources I have consulted speak of an army utility heritage. Be that as it may, the way in which helicopter crosswind / sideways flight limitations are defined in Flight Manuals is often obscure.

What does the Gazelle FM state? How does it define the decrease in the limitation with altitude?

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