Gazelle down at Rand

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cage
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by cage » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:35 am

vildwillie wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:27 pm
The memory effects you refer to I could understand or appreciate if we are moving from Aeroplane to helicopter and so on as the two types are very diferent.
The brain, as smart as it can be, is a pretty dumb muscle and it is commonly understood to revert to what it knows best when it's autopilot kicks in under stress.
This doesn't just apply to flying.
It is what can cause someone that has mainly flown aircraft to stick the nose down in an auto, instead of pulling up.
If you are new to a type, as EF suggested, then it is quite possible that when the poop hit the fan you could revert to pushing in the wrong pedal because thats simply what, at a low level, your brain has been trained to do.
It's one of those human factors, that can bite.
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by Jack Welles » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:05 am

vildwillie wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:27 pm
As a helicopter pilot I fly helicopters with counter clockwise rotating as well as clock wise rotating blades, I could not tell you about muscle memory as you refer to, I just know what pedal to apply to stop the yaw I feel in my ass or see over the nose it's instant instinct, and I doubt seasoned helicopter pilots think about it. In all helicopters left pedal is left and right is right, just like American cars the clutch is still on the left as in our cars. Now the indicators in some cars do catch me out when switching :oops:

The memory effects you refer to I could understand or appreciate if we are moving from Aeroplane to helicopter and so on as the two types are very diferent. Cage ....?
FWIW, that's my experience as well. Never thought about the tech side at all, just fly by feel. This is especially so with game work because you're concentrating on what's happening outside and having the helo react to that. Ag by contrast is much more routine manouvering oriented.

Maybe where it could catch one is in a prang. When I wrote off a H300 I "knew" which way to roll the helo so that the mast wasn't pulled down on my head as the blades hit the deck. Then I could believe that one could be caught out in a helo with the blades rotating the other way because it's not an instinctive move honed by experience ... or shouldn't be :lol:
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by Alouette » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:30 am

The G model has a 1st generation fenestron and its engine power it's less than the other models, not ideal for hot and high. All the other models, including the 342 have the same 2nd generation fenestron and are more than adequate in terms of performance. The service letter mentioned was due to a very thorough investigation by the manufacturer and the British and French militaries following a series of accidents. These were generally low speed manoeuvring with a turn to the left, increasing in rate, with a subsequent roll over. It was found that the pilots assumed loss of control and hadn't used the full right pedal available. In the same way pilots have a mental block and don't use full collective available in a power off autorotation, pilots unfamilar with a gazelle may not use the full deflection available. I'm not saying that this is the case, but it needs to be considered.
This investigation killed the notion of fenestron stall as a possible explanation, as the blades don't stall. The fenestron is affected by tip vortices in the same way as conventional tail rotors, but is more in the line of instability and no loss/lack of control.
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Re: Gazelle down at Rand

Unread post by Peregrine » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:43 pm

Exactly, Alouette =D>

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