Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

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bobthebuilder
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by bobthebuilder » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:34 am

Thanks Tim,

I was looking for confirmation that I understood the implications of this accident correctly, and wondered if I'd missed anything.
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by cage » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:58 am

Good intentions have a habit of getting people into a lot of trouble and it is strange how tribute flights go badly wrong. Death seems to have a funny way of letting many of the lessons from human factors manifest, leading to poor judgement and decision making.
I suspect this guy is in a world of trouble, both criminally and from a civil claim.

Flying low is only part of the problem (if this is shown to be the case, as many suspect it is) but also, as arch quoted - you may not drop anything from an aircraft.
91.06.2 Except in an emergency or unless granted special permission by the Director or approved by an ATSU, no article shall be dropped from an aircraft in flight other than—
(a) fine sand or clean water used as ballast; or
...
The PIC will find themselves being accused of negligence, amongst other more serious charges.
Last edited by cage on Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by AJW » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:17 am

cage wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:58 am
Good intentions have a habit of getting people into a lot of trouble and it is strange how tribute flights go badly wrong. Death seems to have a funny way of letting many of lessons from human factors manifest, leading to poor judgement and decision making.
I suspect this guy is in a world of trouble, both criminally and from a civil claim.

Flying low is only part of the problem (if this is shown to be the case, as many suspect it is) but also, as arch quoted - you may not drop anything from an aircraft.
91.06.2 Except in an emergency or unless granted special permission by the Director or approved by an ATSU, no article shall be dropped from an aircraft in flight other than—
(a) fine sand or clean water used as ballast; or
...
The PIC will find themselves being accused of negligence, amongst other more serious charges.
My thoughts as well.
And the fact that you have a rotating rotor=wing landing between people..
Be safe
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by gyronaut » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:26 am

Sincere condolences to all.

Nothing was dropped from the machine prior to the incident.

I'm with Sir Jim, my money would be on him going low and slow, ending up behind the power-curve, leaving only one option and that is to put it down. This is often reported as a loss of power when in fact it is inadequate power to regain required airspeed without pitching the nose down.
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by Sideslip » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:34 am

Ugly Duckling wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:15 pm
dale wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:37 pm
Spoke Eagle wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:27 pm
Wonder if the urn went into the prop? Or something else related to the exercise? Thinking of the guy that tied a flag to his microlight to commemorate his pilot friend thst died.


Or the ashes into the carb?
Happened to a trike at Springs years ago. He was the last aircraft in the memorial fly past. We used runway 32. Has the trike crossed the threshold the passenger in rear seat opened the box overboard and the ash clogged the air filters. The pilot landed on 34 without incident.
I think Spoke Eagle was referring to the accident of Walter de Lange in 2015.
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:53 am

Sideslip wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:34 am
Ugly Duckling wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:15 pm
dale wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:37 pm


Or the ashes into the carb?
Happened to a trike at Springs years ago. He was the last aircraft in the memorial fly past. We used runway 32. Has the trike crossed the threshold the passenger in rear seat opened the box overboard and the ash clogged the air filters. The pilot landed on 34 without incident.
I think Spoke Eagle was referring to the accident of Walter de Lange in 2015.
With you on Walter's accident. But also referring to Dale's quote on ash in the carb.
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by aviator » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:41 am

low level showing off which became an "emergency landing" after hitting someone on the ground?

I'd be interested to know what caused the emergency that led to the landing.

I've lately been spending a lot of time sailing at the vaal dam, and even during the week it is not uncommon to see a gyrocopter fly lower than the seagulls sitting on the bank.
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by jtresfon » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:16 pm

From a witness present at the incident. Gyro clipped tree. In apparent forced landing decapitated brother of the man whose ashes were to be spread. Young children present. In particular a young 8 year old badly traumatized.

Above received via WhatsApp to the SAGPA group.

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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by WagAero » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:33 pm

Gees what a stuff up - and all from good intentions. I feel for all concerned as there is no malice - just that things go horribly wrong quickly esp when the remorse from the deceased whose ashes are to be scattered comes into the equation.
Condolences to all and hopefully they can get past the added trauma in time to come - condolences RIP.
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by Dobbs » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:46 pm

WagAero, my sentiments exactly, however, I am pretty damn sure that had the pilot been a member of Jim's LCC, this would not have happened. I just went back and had a look at the recent Low Flying topic, and based on some of those comments, one gets the sad feeling that these kinds of tragic incidents will continue ☹
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by Gandolf » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:32 pm

Most probably going to get blasted for being a stickler. but AIP South Africa ENR 0.6-1 of 15 Oct 17 states

1.1.2 Dropping objects, spraying or dusting
Except in an emergency or unless granted special permission
by the Commissioner, no article shall be dropped from an
aircraft in flight other than.
a. fine sand or clean water used as ballast; or
b. chemical substances for the purpose of spraying or dusting.

I really hope that the pilot had the necessary permission, otherwise doing what was considered a good deed could have dire consequences.
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by crazydoc » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:23 pm

Gandolf wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:32 pm
Most probably going to get blasted for being a stickler. but AIP South Africa ENR 0.6-1 of 15 Oct 17 states

1.1.2 Dropping objects, spraying or dusting
Except in an emergency or unless granted special permission
by the Commissioner, no article shall be dropped from an
aircraft in flight other than.
a. fine sand or clean water used as ballast; or
b. chemical substances for the purpose of spraying or dusting.

I really hope that the pilot had the necessary permission, otherwise doing what was considered a good deed could have dire consequences.
From Gyronauts post above.
"Sincere condolences to all.
Nothing was dropped from the machine prior to the incident."
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by cage » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:25 pm

crazydoc wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:23 pm
Gandolf wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:32 pm
Most probably going to get blasted for being a stickler. but AIP South Africa ENR 0.6-1 of 15 Oct 17 states

1.1.2 Dropping objects, spraying or dusting
Except in an emergency or unless granted special permission
by the Commissioner, no article shall be dropped from an
aircraft in flight other than.
a. fine sand or clean water used as ballast; or
b. chemical substances for the purpose of spraying or dusting.

I really hope that the pilot had the necessary permission, otherwise doing what was considered a good deed could have dire consequences.
From Gyronauts post above.
"Sincere condolences to all.
Nothing was dropped from the machine prior to the incident."
nonetheless, the purpose of the flight was to drop ashes.
Not getting that far doesn't make matters any better.
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by Goffel » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:30 pm

Gandolf.....you have hit the nail on the head.

The implications on what this pilot did is going to have far reaching consequences than just having a fatal....(take the emotions out of the incident).

The probabilities of being found guilty and jailed for the persons death is a reality if you look at all the regs he broke.
Was he ag rated...(read the act).
Did he have the necessary permission to be dropping fine sand (ashes), where he was.
Low level over a crowd of people.
Repeated overflight over a crowd of people and being lower than 3000 feet.
Being lower than being able to carry out an emergency landing.

The list is never ending....i could name another 20 regs he broke.

I had a crop sprayer who dropped sweets at a school in Harrismith.....and proceeded to go low level down the National road and then when one of the drivers shook his finger at him....he gave him a V for victory sign.

The pilot was given an option of arriving with alllllllll the regulations he broke with the regs, paragraphs and page numbers or be prosecuted.
He arrived with four pages....and an apology letter to the driver who he gave the V sign to and an apology letter to his boss for embarrassing the company.
He was lucky that i believe in constructive punishment rather than a financial punishment...

If you want to fly low level, do it where when anything goes wrong, it becomes only your problem.

Goffel.
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Re: Gyro emergency landing - one person dead

Unread post by GeraldNagel » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:25 pm

Deceased is named being Terry Dempsey, famous songwriter and record producer. RIP

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