Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

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jimdavis
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by jimdavis » Thu May 02, 2019 2:41 pm

I think Boeing, like VW a couple of years ago, have been caught with their fingers in the cookie jar.

Naughty people at the top of the pile telling lies. Is Boeing's CEO still the same one on whose watch all this corner cutting took place?

I suppose if they kicked him out at this stage it would be an admission that he poked the pussy cat.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Thu May 02, 2019 8:23 pm

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by StressMerchant » Fri May 03, 2019 10:46 am

jimdavis wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:41 pm
I think Boeing, like VW a couple of years ago, have been caught with their fingers in the cookie jar.

Naughty people at the top of the pile telling lies. Is Boeing's CEO still the same one on whose watch all this corner cutting took place?

I suppose if they kicked him out at this stage it would be an admission that he poked the pussy cat.

jim
There is a major amount of politics behind the scenes. Probably not directly relevant to this thread.

Boeing is a conglomerate, consisting of a number of companies in different sectors. Dennis Muilenberg is the CEO of the group. The Max is a product of Boeing Commercial Aircraft (BCA), which is headed by Kevin McAllister. The telling sign is the fact that Muilenerg took the forefront early on in the debacle. Heard much from Kevin?
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Fri May 03, 2019 10:59 am

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by HJK 414 » Fri May 03, 2019 12:43 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:41 pm
I think Boeing, like VW a couple of years ago, have been caught with their fingers in the cookie jar.

Naughty people at the top of the pile telling lies. Is Boeing's CEO still the same one on whose watch all this corner cutting took place?

I suppose if they kicked him out at this stage it would be an admission that he poked the pussy cat.

jim


Yes Jim,

Albeit that the VW Senior Executive (Schmidt) got a 7 year jail sentence for "fidgeting the CO2 output nrs" in cars that were sold in the USA - and VW had to pay out over 15 Billion US$ as compensation.

Now lets put that in perspective with the CEO of Boeing and the fact that 350 people are dead …..
Wonder how much severance bonus he will receive when he "retires" or steps back due "health" and "family reasons" ….

JK
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by rainier » Fri May 03, 2019 4:36 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:43 pm

Yes Jim,

Albeit that the VW Senior Executive (Schmidt) got a 7 year jail sentence for "fidgeting the CO2 output nrs" in cars that were sold in the USA - and VW had to pay out over 15 Billion US$ as compensation.

Now lets put that in perspective with the CEO of Boeing and the fact that 350 people are dead …..
Wonder how much severance bonus he will receive when he "retires" or steps back due "health" and "family reasons" ….

JK
You do make a good point. Food for thought.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by cage » Fri May 03, 2019 4:45 pm

rainier wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:36 pm
HJK 414 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:43 pm

Yes Jim,

Albeit that the VW Senior Executive (Schmidt) got a 7 year jail sentence for "fidgeting the CO2 output nrs" in cars that were sold in the USA - and VW had to pay out over 15 Billion US$ as compensation.

Now lets put that in perspective with the CEO of Boeing and the fact that 350 people are dead …..
Wonder how much severance bonus he will receive when he "retires" or steps back due "health" and "family reasons" ….

JK
You do make a good point. Food for thought.
You are trying to take one case, which involved proven intent to defraud the public, to another unrelated event.
Trying to imply that execs intentionally broke laws that ended up killing people is nothing short of libellous.
There is nothing that supports such a wild claim beyond opinion.
Despite best efforts, aircraft crash, people die.
You honestly think that the head of an established manufacturer would risk the company for such little reward?
crazy..
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by jimdavis » Fri May 03, 2019 4:52 pm

cage wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:45 pm
rainier wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:36 pm
HJK 414 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:43 pm

Yes Jim,

Albeit that the VW Senior Executive (Schmidt) got a 7 year jail sentence for "fidgeting the CO2 output nrs" in cars that were sold in the USA - and VW had to pay out over 15 Billion US$ as compensation.

Now lets put that in perspective with the CEO of Boeing and the fact that 350 people are dead …..
Wonder how much severance bonus he will receive when he "retires" or steps back due "health" and "family reasons" ….

JK
You do make a good point. Food for thought.
You are trying to take one case, which involved proven intent to defraud the public, to another unrelated event.
Trying to imply that execs intentionally broke laws that ended up killing people is nothing short of libellous.
There is nothing that supports such a wild claim beyond opinion.
Despite best efforts, aircraft crash, people die.
You honestly think that the head of an established manufacturer would risk the company for such little reward?
crazy..
Ha ha ha, Cage you take the cake. You decide to call either HJK or myself 'crazy' (you don't make it clear who) because we find a similarity between two companies cutting corners in order to make a greater financial gain.

I would bleat 'personal attack' if I didn't think it was so funny. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by jimdavis » Fri May 03, 2019 4:56 pm

BTW I thought exhaust emissions were poisonous. Just we don't have exact numbers of people poisoned by the cheating VWs

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by cage » Fri May 03, 2019 5:10 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:52 pm
..because we find a similarity between two companies cutting corners in order to make a greater financial gain.
Explain the similarity?
One was proven and had intent, the other is the unsubstantiated opinion of retirees.
I appreciate, given the vast experience of airline design on avcom, that I am waaay out my depth here and will have to yield to the many years of puddle-jumper experience being invoked to determine that a multi-billion dollar company would shoot itself in the foot by intentionally cutting corners and sending people to their death.
There is no doubt mistakes were made, but to imply that this was intentional is a step too far.
The system allowed this aircraft to be legally developed and flown.
If there are fingers to be pointed then that is the place to start, considering how many here laud the progressiveness of the US regulator.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by HJK 414 » Fri May 03, 2019 6:42 pm

cage wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 5:10 pm
jimdavis wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:52 pm
..because we find a similarity between two companies cutting corners in order to make a greater financial gain.
Explain the similarity?
One was proven and had intent, the other is the unsubstantiated opinion of retirees.
I appreciate, given the vast experience of airline design on avcom, that I am waaay out my depth here and will have to yield to the many years of puddle-jumper experience being invoked to determine that a multi-billion dollar company would shoot itself in the foot by intentionally cutting corners and sending people to their death.
There is no doubt mistakes were made, but to imply that this was intentional is a step too far.
…………
Cage,

You started this one …...and even by your standards this is a laughable diatribe.

It was indeed an opinion - and sometimes they differ, even from yours - sorry ….. [-(

Out of your depth ? You have been for some time in my view - lets look at some facts (you like facts it seems)
Pilot 1 - retired owner of a flying school - instructor - thousand of hours of instruction and aviation experience - has an opinion
Pilot 2 - retired - just shy of 9000 hours of which around 8000 + hours of Multi engine Turbine experience - has an opinion
Cage - a 200 hour helo Pilot - with no real aviation experience - "but for Google experience" / yet worth close to 10.000 posts on Avcom - thereby being an expert on everything - also has an opinion ..
Now how do I value the opinion ? - think think think ….. :roll:

As for "intentional" - well - as an opinion goes - it is formed by reading - listening and weighing , and if I read the pieces as posted by Paul (UD) you will find that the weight of the "reported cause" of the MCAS problem is that Boeing did very little wrong technically - but from a Business point of view cut corners to get the 737 Max certified under the same platform - due to the A320 NEO successes.
Hence they did not have to send Pilots back to school and we ended up with some dead passengers - which is apparently frowned upon.
Now the CEO of the company had this happen on his watch - and in my "opinion" that should lead to some action.

As for comparing it to the VW scandal - that was my liberty.
I have no idea why you had to tackle Jim about that.
Oh …. and another "fact" - it appears that every US car with a US manufactured Diesel has a higher output than any VW in question - so as for "causing deaths" …. He was sentenced for breaking rules and lying about it - as - in my "opinion" - Boeing has.

JK
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Fri May 03, 2019 7:18 pm

Wow :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Chris71 » Fri May 03, 2019 8:11 pm

JK. Well said Sir. And might I add, long overdue =D>
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by MadMacs » Fri May 03, 2019 8:43 pm

A humorous look at an AoA sensor; not for sensitive viewers though; contains a lot of swearing :lol:

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by apollo11 » Fri May 03, 2019 9:28 pm

:lol: Check out his workspace, what an untidy dude, just throws stuff down, including the AoA unit... bet this is the guy like a mate I once had that would work on motorcycles in his lounge, parts all over the house even in the kitchen...
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