Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by StressMerchant » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:44 pm

I see McAllister from Boeing Commercial Aircraft has gone. I suspected he would be the first big casualty amongst management..
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:38 pm

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:36 am

This is mind boggling...42 aircraft a month !! still being produced at gigadollars each! and it may never fly again😳
Can any company on earth survive that?
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by StressMerchant » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:17 am

I see the Lion Air final report is due out very shortly. It'll be interesting to see what they make of the combination of the MCAS system and the maintenance carried out the by the airline following the previous problematic flight.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Romeo E.T. » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:35 pm

StressMerchant wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:17 am
I see the Lion Air final report is due out very shortly. It'll be interesting to see what they make of the combination of the MCAS system and the maintenance carried out the by the airline following the previous problematic flight.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by dollar » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:58 am

Boeing will fix the Max. They really don’t have a choice. Question is how much and how long? A software tweak or new wings? 😜
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by MadMacs » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:28 am

dollar wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:58 am
Boeing will fix the Max. They really don’t have a choice. Question is how much and how long? A software tweak or new wings? 😜
The problem is the landing gear. Fit taller oleos and move the engines back to their original position on the wing. A software tweak didn't work in the first place.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Baggie » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:24 am

MadMacs wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:28 am
dollar wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:58 am
Boeing will fix the Max. They really don’t have a choice. Question is how much and how long? A software tweak or new wings? 😜
The problem is the landing gear. Fit taller oleos and move the engines back to their original position on the wing. A software tweak didn't work in the first place.
Ahh but therein lies the problem. Do that and it no longer complies with the “x%” change allowed for certification and can’t be called a 737 any more. Requires a lengthy and costly new certification, which (with the benefit of hindsight) they should have done in the first place!
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Antman » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:49 am

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by tansg » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:31 am

Some more information for the datapot

U.S. Lawmakers Blast Boeing Over ‘Culture Of Concealment’

https://aviationweek.com/commercial-avi ... 7e9ff2d905
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by StressMerchant » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:35 am

The problem with the whole Max debacle is that the real issues are now being hidden in clouds of political posturing and emotion. Republican vs Democrat, union vs non-union....

Having watched the video of the Congress testimony, the majority of the debate appears to centre around the actions of the group CEO after the event, with very little focus on the root cause of the disasters. In fact, some very real issues are simply being glossed over. I suspect that the reason for this is that a) the players don’t understand the real problem, b) even if they did, they don’t have a solution, and c) there is no political gain in trying to solve the real problem.

So here are a few of the real issues that they aren’t debating:

1) The Max was issued with a Type Certificate. Is a Type Certificate a guarantee that the aircraft design is safe?

The current official answer in the USA is “no”, although the question is back in the Courts. I’ll leave you to ponder the consequences of that one.

2) Where was the actual shortcoming in the Max certification? Part 25 has several hundred requirements; which actual requirements were not met? Was it a qualitative or quantitative compliance finding? Where was the root cause?

Here’s the clue: none of the “usual suspects” highlighted in the media are causes, they are symptoms. The lack of a redundant sensor, the lack of information to the crew, etc, were follow-on effects of other shortcomings. Where was the initial design failing? Was it non-compliance to a specific regulation, or did it “fall between the cracks” of multiple requirements?

3) Given the complexity of modern aircraft, how is the FAA actually finding compliance to the general safety requirement of FAR 21.21(b)(2) [… the FAA finds, for an aircraft, that no feature or characteristic makes it unsafe for the category in which certification is requested] ?

The individual regulations can be seen as bricks in a wall. It doesn’t matter if each brick is the correct strength and size, if the mortar that holds the bricks together is weak then the wall is weak.
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The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair.
- Douglas Adams
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Antman » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:12 am

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by biffvj » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:13 am

When you outsource the firmware development (cheaply) that controls the electronic, electrical and mechanical functions of a complex system that has two computers instead of three, it is difficult to have the systems cross checking for errors, which they should. Add mods to make the plane fly like the old 737, mods to correct tendency to pitch up and you have problems. Patching up these problems will not solve the major issues as these are shown to be institutionalized.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by heisan » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:17 pm

So, this latest delay has nothing to do with the Max or MCAS systems - but rather the fundamental design of the 737 automation. I wonder if there will be an AD out to update all the classics and NGs out there that will be affected by this same issue? Or will the fact that these were demonstrably among the safest aircraft to ever fly allow them to keep flying as-is?
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Thermalator » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:24 pm

heisan wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:17 pm
So, this latest delay has nothing to do with the Max or MCAS systems - but rather the fundamental design of the 737 automation. I wonder if there will be an AD out to update all the classics and NGs out there that will be affected by this same issue? Or will the fact that these were demonstrably among the safest aircraft to ever fly allow them to keep flying as-is?
I have no confidence in any of these jokers 'fixing' a system that dates from the 1950's & was always designed to be non critical electronics i.e. the 737 series always had manual reversion for everything....then Boeing decided to break that tradition/philosphy with MCAS & screwed the pooch bigtime. Now the administrators are forcing them to update a system never intended to be critical, to full modern idea of redundancy. :lol: :lol: :lol: Boeing het 'n lat vir hul eie gat gepluk ! (BTW both airbus & boeing's best automation rates fred flintstone quality to me)
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