Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Broadbandboer » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:01 am

According to Reuters China has ordered all it’s airlines to suspend use of the 737 max.


SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China’s aviation regulator said on Monday it had ordered Chinese airlines to suspend their Boeing Co 737 MAX aircraft operations by 6 p.m. (5.00 a.m. ET) following a deadly crash of one of the planes in Ethiopia.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... e=facebook
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by HAAN » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:03 am

Chiina now grounded all 737-8MAX
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by henkhugo » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:11 am

I see Ethiopian and Cayman also grounded their max fleets
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Dobbs » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:19 am

I wonder what Comair's decision is going to be with their brand new one?
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Nosewheel » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:24 am

This makes me feel better, knowing they are keeping the birds on the ground, three of our engineers were onboard that A/c saterday flying to Jnb, one sector later she went down, little close for comfort.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by cage » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:27 am

In the absence of evidence, or a least a suspicion of the cause, is it not premature to ground a commercial aircraft?
I can understand a "better safe than sorry" approach but aren't regulators meant to be a bit more structured than that?
Granted, none of the first world nations have taken any action yet.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:30 am

cage wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:27 am
In the absence of evidence, or a least a suspicion of the cause, is it not premature to ground a commercial aircraft?
I can understand a "better safe than sorry" approach but aren't regulators meant to be a bit more structured than that?
Granted, none of the first world nations have taken any action yet.
It would surely put some pressure on Boeing. :idea:
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by jimdavis » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:35 am

cage wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:27 am
In the absence of evidence, or a least a suspicion of the cause, is it not premature to ground a commercial aircraft?
I can understand a "better safe than sorry" approach but aren't regulators meant to be a bit more structured than that?
Granted, none of the first world nations have taken any action yet.
I guess if they find the FDR and the CVR intact they will be able to find out whether the crew followed Boeing's recommended procedures to rectify the problem. If not then I guess the aircraft don't need grounding. But if they did indeed follow Boeing's instructions and the aircraft was still unflyable then there has to be a world wide grounding,

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by skytrooper » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:39 am

heisan wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:28 pm
skytrooper wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:07 pm
Over the years the one question that Always remain: why is there not a Simple override switch, overriding Everything when things go sideways, it's really a simple solution, yet one will hear pages of excuses why it "can't" be implemented. Absolute BS !
I was under the impression that there was very little computer interference in the 737-MAX. Just throw the trim cut-out switches, and it pretty much becomes a 172 (control-wise at least)?
This from the Warning issued:

"telling pilots to brush up on how to deal with confusing readings or erratic actions from the flight control computer, which could cause the planes to dive, hard. And now the FAA says it’s throwing its weight behind Boeing's advisory, to make it mandatory for US airlines to comply."

There should be a way to override the FC with 1 switch, overriding all sensors, because over the years i don't know how many incidents and accidents was related to faulty sensors, they at some stage in most or many cases will fail. The pilot needs to be Given direct control to the plane when needed. Feel the plane not Figure out what sensor is faulty, that is a ticking time bomb, fly the plane to a landing spot, figure out the sensor issues when safely on the ground, where there will be engineers to look at it anyway.
Last edited by skytrooper on Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by tansg » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:40 am

cage wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:27 am
In the absence of evidence, or a least a suspicion of the cause, is it not premature to ground a commercial aircraft?
I can understand a "better safe than sorry" approach but aren't regulators meant to be a bit more structured than that?
Granted, none of the first world nations have taken any action yet.
Regulators are nature very conservative in their approach to most matters. However such decisions are generally, largely politically driven with decision makers wanting to look pro-active whilst performing damage limitation, etc. Other geo-political factors unfortunately also tend to come into play. Given this, the striking similarities to the LionAir accident must raise a lot of red flags and I would be leaning towards the "put them on the ground until you can show me you have fixed the problem" view. But then I am a grumpy old man with standards.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by cage » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:46 am

tansg wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:40 am
Regulators are nature very conservative in their approach to most matters. However such decisions are generally, largely politically driven with decision makers wanting to look pro-active whilst performing damage limitation, etc. Other geo-political factors unfortunately also tend to come into play. Given this, the striking similarities to the LionAir accident must raise a lot of red flags and I would be leaning towards the "put them on the ground until you can show me you have fixed the problem" view. But then I am a grumpy old man with standards.
Indeed. I would imagine the US are also considering what such a move would mean to Boeing and the affected airlines.
I would love to be a fly on Boeing's wall right now.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Ray W » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:49 am

I see that the Chinese Government has grounded all the Max's in that country, as have Cayman Airways
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Bell 407 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:59 am

Flightradar24 data regarding the crash of Ethiopian Airlines flight 302

Insight into the FR24 data explained in more detail here https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/flig ... NNATDN9Zjg

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by boneman » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:21 am

The Emergency AD that was issued on the 18/11/2018

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guid ... rgency.pdf
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Swartbok » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:29 am

I’m still not happy with the explanation with the Lionair incident, there must have been more than just the MCAS trim down, especially with the electric trim working.

It still is flyable with that trim down, even if you have to fly for 2 hours trim down, trim up, trim down, trim up.......... especially if you’re trying to save your life.

I think there must be more than just the MCAS trim down. but can’t put my finger on it. I’m very disappointed that Boeing would have a system that would automatically override a manual override.
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