Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by AOYB » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:18 am

biffvj wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:03 pm
Goes with the "recently finished high school" age of many of today's instructors.
Kids out of high school should never be instructors. But I guess it’s ok for them to be given a plane full of bombs or guns and sent somewhere like over Germany (or Angola). But never ever should they be given a 172 and asked to teach.

</sarcasm>
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by roadrunner » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:43 am

Have to disagree if you have an environment where there is respect rules and people who set an example this will not happen.Its all about leadership .The ones that have a sense of entitlement will not last in the above environment.I remember at old Ftc in russel langleys days he had his hand on everything .Flew with students and kept the instructors in line .If you have a cfi that do spot checks watch wat is going on on the ramp with preflight listening in on radio chstter this will not happen.
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by De Wet Davel » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:45 am

Shucks, I am glad Avcom members don't monitor Kennedy/Boston/Miami/Chicago airspace!

You boys and girls keep it tidy out there now, mmkay!
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by zulik » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:29 am

Good day,

I have been trawling through this post and the responses.

Perhaps I am reading into it, but there seems to be an undertone of indignance (forgive my language) at the fact that the original poster had the "audacity" to publicise this incident on this forum. It almost reminds me of the backlash that whistleblowers often experience in the corporate environment.

Lets call a spade a spade. We are not flying in Kennedy or Chicago airspace. However the Special rules areas particularly West and South are busy airspace and we are all reliant on each other as pilots flying in those areas, to give proper, detailed position reports and to state our intentions clearly. This cannot be done if 2 people (forget who they are, or where they come from) are having a chat about their party the night before. Accordingly this affects all the users of the airspaces safety.

I do not buy into this brotherhood of protecting each other as fellow pilots, when the conduct is clearly not proper. When it comes to aviation, safety is everything, we must not be discouraged from publicising this sort of issue.

Thanks to the original poster for speaking up.
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by Jack Welles » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:31 am

There seems to be an approach among some on Avcom which makes special allowance for specifically pilot wrongdoers. You can see it in this thread and another example is the thread about the pilot who is alleged to have criminally defrauded his employer by flying with a forged licence.

I wonder if they apply the same degree of "understanding" and "sympathy" when the wrongdoer is an employee of Eskom or Transnet?
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by cage » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:44 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:31 am
There seems to be an approach among some on Avcom which makes special allowance for specifically pilot wrongdoers. You can see it in this thread and another example is the thread about the pilot who is alleged to have criminally defrauded his employer by flying with a forged licence.

I wonder if they apply the same degree of "understanding" and "sympathy" when the wrongdoer is an employee of Eskom or Transnet?
Indeed.
As an aside, there are many things that warrant the term "disgusting".
What just happened in NZ, as an example, is disgusting.
Falling beneath an acceptable level of behaviour can be described in many ways, I am not convinced disgusting is one of them.
No doubt those setting the level of acceptance have always demonstrated the highest level of unwavering professionality.
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by Jack Welles » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:49 am

cage wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:44 am
Jack Welles wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:31 am
There seems to be an approach among some on Avcom which makes special allowance for specifically pilot wrongdoers. You can see it in this thread and another example is the thread about the pilot who is alleged to have criminally defrauded his employer by flying with a forged licence.
I wonder if they apply the same degree of "understanding" and "sympathy" when the wrongdoer is an employee of Eskom or Transnet?
Indeed.
As an aside, there are many things that warrant the term "disgusting".
What just happened in NZ, as an example, is disgusting.
Falling beneath an acceptable level of behaviour can be described in many ways, I am not convinced disgusting is one of them.
No doubt those setting the level of acceptance have always demonstrated the highest level of unwavering professionality.
Okay, I cry Uncle, I give up. What happened in NZ?

As a further aside: isn't hyperbole standard fare on Internet forums?
Last edited by Jack Welles on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:50 am

cage wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:44 am
Jack Welles wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:31 am
There seems to be an approach among some on Avcom which makes special allowance for specifically pilot wrongdoers. You can see it in this thread and another example is the thread about the pilot who is alleged to have criminally defrauded his employer by flying with a forged licence.

I wonder if they apply the same degree of "understanding" and "sympathy" when the wrongdoer is an employee of Eskom or Transnet?
Indeed.
As an aside, there are many things that warrant the term "disgusting".
What just happened in NZ, as an example, is disgusting.
Falling beneath an acceptable level of behaviour can be described in many ways, I am not convinced disgusting is one of them.
No doubt those setting the level of acceptance have always demonstrated the highest level of unwavering professionality.
100% agree disgusting is not an appropriate label for this specific transgression discussed. But other than that I am 100% behind Dale's initial comments made.
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:51 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:49 am
cage wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:44 am
Jack Welles wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:31 am
There seems to be an approach among some on Avcom which makes special allowance for specifically pilot wrongdoers. You can see it in this thread and another example is the thread about the pilot who is alleged to have criminally defrauded his employer by flying with a forged licence.
I wonder if they apply the same degree of "understanding" and "sympathy" when the wrongdoer is an employee of Eskom or Transnet?
Indeed.
As an aside, there are many things that warrant the term "disgusting".
What just happened in NZ, as an example, is disgusting.
Falling beneath an acceptable level of behaviour can be described in many ways, I am not convinced disgusting is one of them.
No doubt those setting the level of acceptance have always demonstrated the highest level of unwavering professionality.
Okay, I cry Uncle, I give up. What happened in NZ?

As a further aside: isn't hyperbole standard fare on Internet forums?
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by Jack Welles » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:53 am

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:51 am
Jack Welles wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:49 am
cage wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:44 am


Indeed.
As an aside, there are many things that warrant the term "disgusting".
What just happened in NZ, as an example, is disgusting.
Falling beneath an acceptable level of behaviour can be described in many ways, I am not convinced disgusting is one of them.
No doubt those setting the level of acceptance have always demonstrated the highest level of unwavering professionality.
Okay, I cry Uncle, I give up. What happened in NZ?
As a further aside: isn't hyperbole standard fare on Internet forums?
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by cage » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:02 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:49 am
As a further aside: isn't hyperbole standard fare on Internet forums?
Sadly, yes. Much like unnecessary banter on the radio.
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by cage » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:06 am

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:50 am
..But other than that I am 100% behind Dale's initial comments made.
Naturally.
But honestly, of everyone who has commented on poor RT, who has not stepped beyond the textbook at one point or another? Had someone overheard it, would that be sufficient to call their character and abilities into question?
No argument, that it should not be encouraged nor condoned, just a little perspective would help.
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by BONNIE MAD » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:17 am

Yes, If he was a true professional, he would of turned the "aileron flutter in his pants" into a lesson the student could of at least benefitted by.
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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by jimdavis » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:27 am

cage wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:06 am
Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:50 am
..But other than that I am 100% behind Dale's initial comments made.
Naturally.
But honestly, of everyone who has commented on poor RT, who has not stepped beyond the textbook at one point or another? Had someone overheard it, would that be sufficient to call their character and abilities into question?
No argument, that it should not be encouraged nor condoned, just a little perspective would help.
That frequency is in place in the interests of flight safety - for no other reason. It is not a matter of perspective. Thee are two things going on:

1. Endangering air traffic.
2. Instructors bringing their profession into disrepute.

Exactly where should perspective be applied? Would there be calls for perspective if this behaviour had caused a mid air collision?

Arguing about whether the adjective 'disgusting' is too harsh a term, shows a contempt for the concept of flight safety.

This is another case of allowing standards to slip so that they soon become the new norm. It should be condemned by all who care about safety and professionalism in aviation.

jim

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Re: Disgusting behaviour by Instructors

Unread post by Fred Bebington » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:33 am

I’m glad that when I started gliding I had “old school” SAAF trained instructors. Discipline was part of the training. I’ve carried that through the past 53 years that I have been involved with gliding.
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