Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

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Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Jasondn78 » Mon May 06, 2019 9:57 pm

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-new ... 4-15006183

This has been a terrible week.

This crash doesn’t give many clues as to what happened here. Confusing pax numbers. 18 on flight and 14 died. No further report of the other 4 pax.
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Dragon » Tue May 07, 2019 12:05 am

If I have to speculate based on the one alleged and unconfirmed pic I have seen, it's just sitting there in plan form with no visible scrape marks leading to it. Looks as if it spun in from above except it can't be because I can't see any rotation, and there's barely any forward speed after impact- so it looks to me like very slow speed very high rate of descent. Deep stall all the way down? Seems unlikely-but what else?
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Dragon » Tue May 07, 2019 12:43 am

Jasondn78 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:57 pm
Confusing pax numbers. 18 on flight and 14 died. No further report of the other 4 pax.
Nobody walked away from this one, they just got the pax numbers wrong.
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Jasondn78 » Tue May 07, 2019 5:20 am

E750351A-9EB7-408F-A973-B8802C92D74E.jpeg
Looks like it went straight in.
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by No Fly No More » Tue May 07, 2019 7:33 am

My theory - he was too low for the mountains, realised too late, pulled up sharply and stalled it in. Boom!
Reports say 10 + 3. No survivors. Sad.
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Dobbs » Tue May 07, 2019 7:46 am

Must be some serious mountains there if his problems started at around 38 000 ft :shock:
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Air Hog » Tue May 07, 2019 8:03 am

No Fly No More wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:33 am
My theory - he was too low for the mountains, realised too late, pulled up sharply and stalled it in. Boom!
Reports say 10 + 3. No survivors. Sad.
Minus 20160 fpm, is this at all possible?
Drop.JPG
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Ray W » Tue May 07, 2019 8:09 am

Air Hog wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:03 am
No Fly No More wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:33 am
My theory - he was too low for the mountains, realised too late, pulled up sharply and stalled it in. Boom!
Reports say 10 + 3. No survivors. Sad.
Minus 20160 fpm, is this at all possible?

Drop.JPG
That looks like his rate of descent to me - maybe a structural failure of some sort ?
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Stephan van Tonder » Tue May 07, 2019 8:32 am

The picture though has all the major parts accounted for?. Wings are both there. Tailplane is there. Nose was there albeit burnt out.
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Jasondn78 » Tue May 07, 2019 9:08 am

Stephan van Tonder wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:32 am
The picture though has all the major parts accounted for?. Wings are both there. Tailplane is there. Nose was there albeit burnt out.
Yeah, a plane coming down at a 90 degree nose down doesn't leave a wreckage that is even remotely distinguishable as a plane. Judging by the wreckage so neatly laid out, it looks like it was a low and slow impact.

Something is not adding up here.
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Dobbs » Tue May 07, 2019 9:27 am

At that descent rate and that attitude on impact - would one possiblity not be a deep stall?
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by 738 » Tue May 07, 2019 9:44 am

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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Keith Quixley » Tue May 07, 2019 9:57 am

How much stock can you place in that last bit of Flightradar data? What is coverage like in the area and could that be interpolation in the absence of actual data being relayed?
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Warloc67 » Tue May 07, 2019 10:58 am

18 on a CL601, seems it was high density config, not usual for a VIP aircraft?
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Re: Bombardier CL601 Challenger crash in Mexico

Unread post by Sea Rescue » Tue May 07, 2019 6:08 pm

Hi Dobbs,

I think you are on the nail, as a deep stall leaves exactly that very same "footprint" on the ground. I lost two friends in a similar accident, except there were no pax on board. They "played" around with a business Jet, lost it too close to the ground for an easy recovery - then as is human, pulled back on the stick in an attempt to "force" a recovery and hit the ground exactly as you see the Challenger did.

From nose to tail, all of it was there - when the cabin door popped open and slammed down, most of the coffee cups shot out of the galley and ended up in the grass about 30 meters away. The engines simply tore off, hit the ground and left a wheelbarrow full of turbine blades in a heap of metal. I still have one blade as a key ring. But for the fact that I had an important appointment with a customer and could not make the flight - I walked away.

Such is how aviation can be at times ? I am positive that this Challenger, for whatever the reason, went down in the exact configuration which I have described above. In the crash I mentioned above the forward momentum was only enough to move the aircraft 4 meters forward from point of impact.

Sad, but true - I wonder what caused that flight attitude to arise ??
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