Aircraft Down Nylstroom

What your instructor never taught you. Continuing your education and learning from others. Flight safety topics and accident/incident discussions.

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jimdavis
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by jimdavis » Mon May 20, 2019 1:48 pm

While I love to discuss the spin characteristics of various aircraft - we have strayed far from the accident.

If this aircraft did spin in, it was nothing to do with the Tomahawk's behaviour in a full spin. It would certainly have been in the incipient stage, and we are all agreed that she goes in very easily and willingly.

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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Chalkie » Mon May 20, 2019 2:41 pm

Dragon wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:40 pm
I think this has turned out to be about the nature of the Tomahawk accelerating her spin. She starts off fairly flat esp in incipient phase and then gradually keeps getting steeper, so it all depends on when you recover. If you recover at 3 or maybe 6 turns you might say she is lazy and flatter than a C150 and PA18, but if you let her wind up to 8 or 10 spins, you are in for a very steep wild and exciting ride, and by the way the recovery also takes that much longer - about a 3turn recovery or so at an even more accelerated and even steeper attitude, probably vertical.
Interesting stuff, Dragon. Someone needs to ask Dennis Spence to post about his experience when he did about 30 turns in the Tomahawk to help dispel the initial rumours; but I think in that exercise he did it with some power on to flatten the spin and decrease the ROD.
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Dragon » Mon May 20, 2019 3:34 pm

Chalkie wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 2:41 pm
Interesting stuff, Dragon. Someone needs to ask Dennis Spence to post about his experience when he did about 30 turns in the Tomahawk to help dispel the initial rumours; but I think in that exercise he did it with some power on to flatten the spin and decrease the ROD.
I’m afraid power changes the picture altogether and indeed will tend to flatten it out. Would still be a good tale.

I have to agree with Jim and others, while of much interest esp to me (I love spins) we have strayed far from the topic and as suggested earlier by others I ask moderators to split the topic.

PS diverging tangentially even more off topic but you reminded me I must tell you guys about the time Dennis and I couldn’t recover from an inverted spin in a Pitts! (If I haven’t already??)
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Spoke Eagle » Mon May 20, 2019 3:53 pm

I think most Tomahawk spin related accidents were after the recovery. Because the nose is so far down and it "snaps" out of the spin VNe is exceeded easily and the wings come off.
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by jimdavis » Mon May 20, 2019 4:26 pm

Spoke Eagle wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:53 pm
I think most Tomahawk spin related accidents were after the recovery. Because the nose is so far down and it "snaps" out of the spin VNe is exceeded easily and the wings come off.
That's a very interesting angle, Spokers, I have never heard of that happening. Can you point to specific accidents?

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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Dragon » Mon May 20, 2019 4:29 pm

Spoke Eagle wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:53 pm
I think most Tomahawk spin related accidents were after the recovery. Because the nose is so far down and it "snaps" out of the spin VNe is exceeded easily and the wings come off.
esp if people are slow to react and keep the stick forward after the spin has stopped, making things exponentially worse. Inexperienced-at-aerobatics pilots are also nervous of getting the required G on early, when it is at its most critical to change the trajectory of the outcome. Apply it too slowly and tentatively and the speed increase and G needed later are exponentially increased. Another good reason to include some aerobatics training in your quiver for those of you looking to expand your flying repertoire.
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Chris71 » Mon May 20, 2019 10:06 pm

Looking at the pictures of the wreck I can't help thinking that maybe his intention was to pancake it onto the face of the hill, sliding uphill to make the impact survivable, but simply couldn't get the pitch control he needed due to the characteristics of a T-tail at low airspeed and/or deep stall situation.
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Mouser » Tue May 21, 2019 6:05 am

Chris71 wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 10:06 pm
Looking at the pictures of the wreck I can't help thinking that maybe his intention was to pancake it onto the face of the hill, sliding uphill to make the impact survivable, but simply couldn't get the pitch control he needed due to the characteristics of a T-tail at low airspeed and/or deep stall situation.
Could be but what a horrible surface to even slide on intentionally with all those boulders and a few trees.
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by CWS » Wed May 22, 2019 9:39 pm

[quote=Chalkie post_id=2041841 time=1558334311 user_id=8887
“In the Wits Flying Club we had two PA38's KHV and KHY. KHY was buckled in a hard landing which affected the wing incidence. (The ailerons had large tabs fitted, the one bent up, the other bent down to make the aircraft fly straight.) This aircraft would only spin in one direction and would enter a spiral dive if you tried to spin it the other direction”]


Chalkie, interestingly, this plane used to be ZS-KHV before all the mods were done and it was moved to the NTC register
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Thinus Kemp » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:50 am

jimdavis wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:43 pm
So Willie says a Lycoming O-320, and Jvg says a Mazda engine. Which one was it?

jim

It was a O-320 we installed after the mazda
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Thinus Kemp » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:52 am

Good day Guys

If you need to know the full correct story i will post it here as i was there.

Thank you

Thinus
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Sideslip » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:02 am

Thinus I (and many many others) are very sorry for your loss and equally sorry that you had to witness the accident.

I did not know your parents well but I had attended a few EAA events and some of the breakfast fly-ins to Volksrust and they always made me feel extremely welcome. I had the honor of hearing Jan telling some of his incredible stories of his flying experiences and that always made for great entertainment.
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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Whirly » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:03 am

Thinus Kemp wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:52 am
Good day Guys

If you need to know the full correct story i will post it here as i was there.

Thank you

Thinus
Yes, please Thinus.

Regards.

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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Flybynite » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:30 pm

Thinus jou Pa word gemis. Hier is ‘n foto van hom besig met ‘n propeller.

Groete

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Re: Aircraft Down Nylstroom

Unread post by Dragon » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:40 am

Thinus what did you see that day?

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