Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

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Romeo E.T.
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by Romeo E.T. » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:23 pm

MemyselfandI wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:27 pm
The pic posted above is NOT twy N. Twy N is further south.
correct, my posted image is to show the dual holding points at the threshold available, if ATC sequencing is the argument.
sometimes we suffer a bit from C.R.A.F.T. sickness..Can't Remember A F@#%ing Thing

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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by Captain Gyro » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:27 pm

Romeo E.T. wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:16 pm
That intersection should be "unavailable" for take off, it takes 30 seconds longer to taxi to full length
If they had to make intersection N not available it would result in operational problems with hot brakes, especially for the A319’s that don’t have brake fans (A320’s have brake fans). The residual thrust is so high, that in line with the Airbus braking recommendation, one has to let the speed build up to 30 kts, and then bring the speed down to 10 kts again. This occurs several times taxing out for 21R, and N intersection really helps. Once the temps go over 300C, T/O is not permitted, and can take around 15-20 minutes to cool down again, which is a real hassle when there is traffic behind you. The worst is taking over a A319 on a short turnaround, taxing to 21R full length, on a light aircraft, and then sitting there. One sees the temps building up, with a delayed reaction, as you get to the holding point.
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by Romeo E.T. » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:55 am

Captain Gyro wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:27 pm
Romeo E.T. wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:16 pm
That intersection should be "unavailable" for take off, it takes 30 seconds longer to taxi to full length
If they had to make intersection N not available it would result in operational problems with hot brakes, especially for the A319’s that don’t have brake fans (A320’s have brake fans). The residual thrust is so high, that in line with the Airbus braking recommendation, one has to let the speed build up to 30 kts, and then bring the speed down to 10 kts again. This occurs several times taxing out for 21R, and N intersection really helps. Once the temps go over 300C, T/O is not permitted, and can take around 15-20 minutes to cool down again, which is a real hassle when there is traffic behind you. The worst is taking over a A319 on a short turnaround, taxing to 21R full length, on a light aircraft, and then sitting there. One sees the temps building up, with a delayed reaction, as you get to the holding point.
Glenda , ..Is taxiing with thrust reverse "cracked" , like is often done on the B737, not allowed on the "baby"-Bus ?
sometimes we suffer a bit from C.R.A.F.T. sickness..Can't Remember A F@#%ing Thing

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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by Romeo E.T. » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:52 am

Captain Gyro wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:27 pm
Romeo E.T. wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:16 pm
That intersection should be "unavailable" for take off, it takes 30 seconds longer to taxi to full length
If they had to make intersection N not available ..........
If they keep intersection N, then a MANDATORY "hold short" on taxiway A should be imposed, for following traffic. and the resultant traffic jams it creates
but the procedure to allow other aircraft to "attempt"" to pass behind, has had 2 (that I know of) Major incidents with damage
sometimes we suffer a bit from C.R.A.F.T. sickness..Can't Remember A F@#%ing Thing

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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by Richard Smit » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:20 am

Romeo E.T. wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:52 am
Captain Gyro wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:27 pm
Romeo E.T. wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:16 pm
That intersection should be "unavailable" for take off, it takes 30 seconds longer to taxi to full length
If they had to make intersection N not available ..........
If they keep intersection N, then a MANDATORY "hold short" on taxiway A should be imposed, for following traffic. and the resultant traffic jams it creates
but the procedure to allow other aircraft to "attempt"" to pass behind, has had 2 (that I know of) Major incidents with damage
Agreed.
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by beckers » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:33 am

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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by richard C » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:38 am

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Why would Mango disregard ATC GRD instructions ?
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by Ray W » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:42 am

richard C wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:38 am
:shock: :shock: :shock:

Why would Mango disregard ATC GRD instructions ?
Only they can answer that but it does prove that you should listen to what ATC is saying and if you disagree with them then say so
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by Baggie » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:41 am

richard C wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:38 am
:shock: :shock: :shock:

Why would Mango disregard ATC GRD instructions ?
The ATC didn’t instruct the Mango to taxi via the “G” intersections and “Delta Ramp” - they used the phrase ”if required”.
The Captain of the Mango obviously decided that that taxi routing was not required.

There is a fairly simple fix to prevent this happening again. No aircraft on taxiway Alpha May taxi past an aircraft holding at RWY 21R November holding point. Alternative routing should be via the “G” intersections and Delta ramp as the ATC mentioned.
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by southside » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:51 am

Some basic spelling and grammar errors. Also called the Comair aircraft Mango in the caption below the photo. Either nobody proof reads this, or the person that is proof reading it is incompetent as well :?
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by henkhugo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:08 am

So it all started with Mango using F instead of E as instructed. That's where the holes in the cheese started to line up....
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by FoxTROT » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:21 am

The report states the Mango registration as 3 different ones ie ZS-SJH, ZS-SJZ and ZS-SJS in the text. #-o
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by southside » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:42 pm

FoxTROT wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:21 am
The report states the Mango registration as 3 different ones ie ZS-SJH, ZS-SJZ and ZS-SJS in the text. #-o
What is concerning to me is that if they are incompetent in compiling a report, how competent are they when investigating a smouldering wreck? Can they tell the difference between a starter and an alternator? I would hope so.
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by ACE MAN » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:37 pm

southside wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:42 pm
FoxTROT wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:21 am
The report states the Mango registration as 3 different ones ie ZS-SJH, ZS-SJZ and ZS-SJS in the text. #-o
What is concerning to me is that if they are incompetent in compiling a report, how competent are they when investigating a smouldering wreck? Can they tell the difference between a starter and an alternator? I would hope so.
How about a Starter-Genny :lol:
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Re: Comair and Mango Intersection N RWY 21R

Unread post by Romeo E.T. » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:48 pm

14:35:55 CAA 219 TWR TWR CAW 219
14:35:57 TWR CAW 219 CAW 219 go-ahead
14:36:00 CAW 219 TWR When Mango passed behind us we felt a bit of a bang we, I
am not sure if they touched us. Can you find out if they also
felt anything?

14:36:05 TWR CAW 219 Copied will do
14:38:44 TWR CAW 219 CAW 237 from the Mango he didn’t feel anything at all are you
happy to depart?
14:38:51 CAW 219 TWR Okay if he is sure he was clear it might have been a wind gust
as well, it could have been that. If he is sure that he did not
connect we are happy to go.
and right there is where the flight should have terminated !!

if there is doubt.......there is no doubt
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