flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by sweptwing » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:49 pm

PJL wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:33 am
My take is that they had engine failure at a low altitude saw a possible landing area turned towards it and spun in. A very scary and sad scenario.

PJL
With his experience you have to give him the benefit of the doubt that he would not have spun it in.
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:28 am

Rooster wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:54 am
I want to start by saying that I'm so sorry for your loss to those closest to these fellow aviators. It's tragic!
I've always wondered about the speed at which I'd have to move to transition from best angle of climb to best glide speed in my heavy loaded light homebuilt, in order to avoid a stall if I had an engine out?

Is it worth thinking about in this case, uncle Jim?
Or in any case at all? (Am I thinking stupid?).
Reid.
The transition from Vx to VbestGlide in my Sling 4 is pretty hectic. It needs a MASSIVE push and is very unpleasant. FWIW I never climb at Vx routinely for this reason.

RIP and condolences to the family and to the Airplane Factory Team. IIRC this is only the second fatal incident in the Sling series? (First one being an out of envelope low speed approach stall/spin in Aus)
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by PJL » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:24 am

I find the following remark interesting...................
Mrb13676 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:28 am
(First one being an out of envelope low speed approach stall/spin in Aus)

PJL
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:40 am

PJL wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:24 am
I find the following remark interesting...................
Mrb13676 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:28 am
(First one being an out of envelope low speed approach stall/spin in Aus)

PJL
Apologies.... This was a very poorly worded statement on my part. What I am led to believe about that accident was that the aircraft was loaded WAY out of C/G envelope at the time of the stall/spin.
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by PJL » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:52 am

No problem Mike, I have never flown a Sling 4 but I am concerned that the aircraft could have insufficient power in an emergency when it is heavily loaded let alone a total engine failure. Please I am not knocking the aircraft but just expressing my opinion. I fly a RV10 and if you get behind the speed curve she drops out the sky like a brick. BTW my initial comment was also quickly/poorly constructed but there is a huge chance that a stall occured with tragic results, again this MY opinion.

PJL
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by jimdavis » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:57 am

Rooster wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:54 am
I want to start by saying that I'm so sorry for your loss to those closest to these fellow aviators. It's tragic!
I've always wondered about the speed at which I'd have to move to transition from best angle of climb to best glide speed in my heavy loaded light homebuilt, in order to avoid a stall if I had an engine out?

Is it worth thinking about in this case, uncle Jim?
Or in any case at all? (Am I thinking stupid?).
Reid.
You raise an excellent point, Rooster. It is indeed a pretty violent transition and will result in a massive loss of height if not done swiftly.

In fact, when not done quickly enough it greatly increases your chances of spinning in during an attempted 180 back to the runway.

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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by Fransw » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:00 am

vlammie wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:02 am
Tragic! RIP!🙏 I wonder what technical problem they had that forced them to make a emergency landing, and then how it was remedied to take off again?
? Anymore on this statement?...thanks!
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by PJL » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:05 am

Reid the best glide speed in the RV10 is about 70kts but my experience is that this speed is too low if you need to do a turn and I now plan for 75 to 80 kts. The other issue is not to fixate on being spot on with this speed as you are loosing both time and height extremely quickly.

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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by PJL » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:06 am

Fransw wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:00 am
vlammie wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:02 am
Tragic! RIP!🙏 I wonder what technical problem they had that forced them to make a emergency landing, and then how it was remedied to take off again?
? Anymore on this statement?...thanks!
I hear that it was a engine problem but I cannot confirm that it was related to fuel.

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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:14 am

The other thing that scares me about the Rotax and I wonder if this was an issue here is that the electric fuel pump will keep adding fuel to the fire (so to speak) if you don’t kill the master or turn off the pumps.

I’m not saying this happened here, but I’m Speculating as to whether it was a factor in the fire?
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by Wingnutter » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:38 am

Mrb13676 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:28 am

RIP and condolences to the family and to the Airplane Factory Team. IIRC this is only the second fatal incident in the Sling series? (First one being an out of envelope low speed approach stall/spin in Aus)
As far as I am aware the crash in Australia had no fatalities, which would make this the first and only fatal Sling crash - pretty impressive record considering the number of aircraft out there and the number of hours being flown, many by low time pilots. Not that that detracts from the tragedy of this accident.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:44 am

I just checked again. You’re correct. No fatalities in the Australia incident. So this is the first.
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by Dragon » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:40 am

Mrb13676 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:28 am

The transition from Vx to VbestGlide in my Sling 4 is pretty hectic. It needs a MASSIVE push and is very unpleasant. FWIW I never climb at Vx routinely for this reason.
I haven’t flown a Sling, when you say “MASSIVE push and is very unpleasant”, do you mean:
a) travel forwards of the stick is an uncomfortably large distance?
b) stick force is unpleasantly high?
c) it is a sustained manoeuvre and you find the zero G unpleasant?
I am trying to work out whether your experiences are traits unique to the Sling or are what we usually experience during this manoeuvre.

(as an aside I have a sneaky suspicion in a few posts time I will find myself once again recommending gliding training to all, during which this manoeuvre is practiced countless times during the winch cable break procedure)
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by Dragon » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:47 am

PJL wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:05 am
the best glide speed in the RV10 I now plan for 75 to 80 kts. The other issue is not to fixate on being spot on with this speed as you are losing both time and height extremely quickly
Keep in mind if you are not spot on with this speed you are looking for a stall. The trick is to give it a very quick trim and then it looks after itself you just have to check it now and again instead of wrestling with it.
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Re: flight support aircraft - Cape to Cairo Challenge RIP

Unread post by PJL » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 pm

Dragon in the case of the RV10 it takes time to convert height into speed and it easy to under or over adjust the stick manually, my reason for choosing a high than specified best glide speed is for the very reason that you have mentioned about the stall speed. Thank you for the trim advice I am going to practice it!! =D> =D> =D>

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