Light aircraft down Pretoria, ZS-UKU KR2

What your instructor never taught you. Continuing your education and learning from others. Flight safety topics and accident/incident discussions.

Moderator: Moderators

Golf Tango
Take off Clearance
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:30 pm
Has liked: 8 times
Been liked: 34 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by Golf Tango » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm

We were flipping some Pretoria Boys High boys the previous Friday at Kittyhawk. The gentleman killed in this accident was one of the pilots there, although he didn't flip any of them, he was flying the accident plane there. There was a thanks ceremony after and in the back ground the the deceased was doing all kinds of aerobatics in the KR2. Most of the guys (high time aerobatics pilots mostly) were amazed with how he was flying that plane as was I. Means we had never seen a KR2 flown like that 😱. I remarked to my colleagues that the airframe whistled nicely. Shame.
These users liked the author Golf Tango for the post (total 2):
jimdavisBackmarker
"I put my finger up and blocked out the whole earth, made me feel incredibly small" - Niel Armstrong
Golf Tango
Take off Clearance
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:30 pm
Has liked: 8 times
Been liked: 34 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by Golf Tango » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:59 pm

The wreck landed in my friends sisters farm. The deceased was thrown clear of the aircraft likely during the break-up.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
These users liked the author Golf Tango for the post:
xfiles
"I put my finger up and blocked out the whole earth, made me feel incredibly small" - Niel Armstrong
User avatar
Vincent
Mags Dead Cut
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:07 am
Closest Airfield: Matsapha
Location: HhoHho
Has liked: 22 times
Been liked: 19 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by Vincent » Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:12 pm

wow... :shock:
These users liked the author Vincent for the post:
Volo
User avatar
Theuns v V
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 13259
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:26 pm
Closest Airfield: Rand
Location: JHB
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 368 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by Theuns v V » Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:15 pm

Magtag that is total destruction :shock: :shock:

By the looks of the pattern can one assume that the impact was very vertical? hence not spread over a larger area
User avatar
jimdavis
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 18209
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:46 am
Closest Airfield: FAGG
Location: Wilderness
Has liked: 1849 times
Been liked: 2443 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by jimdavis » Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:39 pm

Golf Tango wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm
We were flipping some Pretoria Boys High boys the previous Friday at Kittyhawk. The gentleman killed in this accident was one of the pilots there, although he didn't flip any of them, he was flying the accident plane there. There was a thanks ceremony after and in the back ground the the deceased was doing all kinds of aerobatics in the KR2. Most of the guys (high time aerobatics pilots mostly) were amazed with how he was flying that plane as was I. Means we had never seen a KR2 flown like that 😱. I remarked to my colleagues that the airframe whistled nicely. Shame.
Thanks Golf Tango. From what you say it sounds as if the pilot was possibly subjecting the airframe to loads for which it was not designed.

jim
These users liked the author jimdavis for the post (total 6):
RudixJohan SwakopmundFranswmarkIIBackmarkerWout
"PPL Manual"
"Flight Tests"
"So Others May Live"
"Flying in Africa" Vol 1
"Flying in Africa" Vol 2
Look inside these books, or buy them at: www.jimdavis.co.za.
User avatar
markII
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:44 pm
Closest Airfield: FAWB
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 4 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by markII » Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:00 pm

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21071

Came across this thread.
WHEN IN DOUBT PULL OUT!!!!!
Mark
User avatar
markII
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:44 pm
Closest Airfield: FAWB
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 4 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by markII » Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:15 pm

These users liked the author markII for the post:
Rooster
WHEN IN DOUBT PULL OUT!!!!!
Mark
User avatar
Ugly Duckling
8000 Tousand
8000 Tousand
Posts: 8588
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:24 pm
Closest Airfield: Brakpan Benoni FABB
Location: Waterkloof
Has liked: 1110 times
Been liked: 1165 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:16 pm

Golf Tango wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:59 pm
The wreck landed in my friends sisters farm. The deceased was thrown clear of the aircraft likely during the break-up.
The center section spar attached to the wing spar
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Paul Sabatier
Long time Cygnet builder
The object is to fly, it does not matter what the object is!
willieklanie
Aircraft in Hangar
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:09 pm
Closest Airfield: EGLL
Location: London
Has liked: 26 times
Been liked: 8 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by willieklanie » Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:23 pm

Golf Tango wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm
We were flipping some Pretoria Boys High boys the previous Friday at Kittyhawk. The gentleman killed in this accident was one of the pilots there, although he didn't flip any of them, he was flying the accident plane there. There was a thanks ceremony after and in the back ground the the deceased was doing all kinds of aerobatics in the KR2. Most of the guys (high time aerobatics pilots mostly) were amazed with how he was flying that plane as was I. Means we had never seen a KR2 flown like that 😱. I remarked to my colleagues that the airframe whistled nicely. Shame.
A couple of months ago I was in Nelspruit where the same Gentleman was test flying another converted KR 2 (converted to single seat with Jab3300).
It was low pass after low pass, full bore followed by pitch-ups and then other excessive manoeuvring. I was surprised to see how much such an airframe could withstand. (not flown within a normal test flight regime; didn't follow a logical pattern, was just hot-doggin it)

As a fellow aerobatic pilot i was wondering whether perhaps the pilot flying that particular day had become so tame with "g" forces or over-trusting of the design limits, or whether he was just that good that he knew the limits.

Very sad.
User avatar
Rudix
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1154
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:12 am
Closest Airfield: Private on farm
Location: Eastern Cape
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 8 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by Rudix » Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:34 pm

willieklanie wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:23 pm
Golf Tango wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm
We were flipping some Pretoria Boys High boys the previous Friday at Kittyhawk. The gentleman killed in this accident was one of the pilots there, although he didn't flip any of them, he was flying the accident plane there. There was a thanks ceremony after and in the back ground the the deceased was doing all kinds of aerobatics in the KR2. Most of the guys (high time aerobatics pilots mostly) were amazed with how he was flying that plane as was I. Means we had never seen a KR2 flown like that 😱. I remarked to my colleagues that the airframe whistled nicely. Shame.
A couple of months ago I was in Nelspruit where the same Gentleman was test flying another converted KR 2 (converted to single seat with Jab3300).
It was low pass after low pass, full bore followed by pitch-ups and then other excessive manoeuvring. I was surprised to see how much such an airframe could withstand. (not flown within a normal test flight regime; didn't follow a logical pattern, was just hot-doggin it)

As a fellow aerobatic pilot i was wondering whether perhaps the pilot flying that particular day had become so tame with "g" forces or over-trusting of the design limits, or whether he was just that good that he knew the limits.

Very sad.
I wonder if it was this flight?

savas
Too Tousand
Too Tousand
Posts: 2818
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:18 pm
Closest Airfield: FABB
Location: Benoni
Has liked: 8 times
Been liked: 103 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by savas » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:02 pm

Rudix wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:34 pm
willieklanie wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:23 pm
Golf Tango wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm
We were flipping some Pretoria Boys High boys the previous Friday at Kittyhawk. The gentleman killed in this accident was one of the pilots there, although he didn't flip any of them, he was flying the accident plane there. There was a thanks ceremony after and in the back ground the the deceased was doing all kinds of aerobatics in the KR2. Most of the guys (high time aerobatics pilots mostly) were amazed with how he was flying that plane as was I. Means we had never seen a KR2 flown like that 😱. I remarked to my colleagues that the airframe whistled nicely. Shame.
A couple of months ago I was in Nelspruit where the same Gentleman was test flying another converted KR 2 (converted to single seat with Jab3300).
It was low pass after low pass, full bore followed by pitch-ups and then other excessive manoeuvring. I was surprised to see how much such an airframe could withstand. (not flown within a normal test flight regime; didn't follow a logical pattern, was just hot-doggin it)

As a fellow aerobatic pilot i was wondering whether perhaps the pilot flying that particular day had become so tame with "g" forces or over-trusting of the design limits, or whether he was just that good that he knew the limits.

Very sad.
I wonder if it was this flight?

Even when I maidened a RC plane back in the day, I would keep it high at first for 1st flight, land check everything and then deem it safe to fly low!!
User avatar
Theuns v V
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 13259
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:26 pm
Closest Airfield: Rand
Location: JHB
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 368 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by Theuns v V » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:04 pm

By no means am I an engineer or test pilot but I recall when my plane was tested it was done rather gently at first and at hight if the donkey quit. It will be difficult to judge the G loads during those pull ups but I can se it being more than may be 3-4. As far as I know the wings should be load tested to 1.5 G of the flight category it will be used in. Wood is by far stronger then people thing and it will flex before breaking....if the glue is strong enough and there is a good propper glue surface joint.

Another thing I was wondering about, what is the VNE of the KR? If aeros was indeed done ,not saying it is so just speculating, maybe the speed buildup was to much for the airframe and as mentioned flutter could have occured. 8-[
User avatar
V5 - LEO
8000 Tousand
8000 Tousand
Posts: 8170
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:18 pm
Closest Airfield: FYWH
Location: Namibia
Has liked: 551 times
Been liked: 456 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:11 pm

....was that really the "maiden" flight, what about the flights to proof she is airworthy for an ATF, or is that only after initial build and not rebuild / modifications?
These users liked the author V5 - LEO for the post:
Raffles
In God I trust. The masses are never right, the minority are sometimes right, but the truth is always right.
“One good teacher in a lifetime may sometimes change a delinquent into a solid citizen.” — Philip Wylie
User avatar
Theuns v V
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 13259
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:26 pm
Closest Airfield: Rand
Location: JHB
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 368 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by Theuns v V » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:20 pm

I recall the original airframe was done in the late 70's ? I stand to be corrected but the glues back then were not as robust against aging as more modern epoxy systems are. With somthing like a spar where access to the internals is not good for inspection it may be a problem I recon.

That is why if someone asks me for an opinion of a wooden airframe where I can not see, feel and do a tap test I am rather hesitant if I konw older tipe glues were used. I am not saying the older glues are bad, just more need for proper inspection.

I have had ribs almost fall apart in my hand where the gussetes were held on only by the nails as the glue has become powdery and brittle
These users liked the author Theuns v V for the post:
flysouth
User avatar
MLyons
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:14 pm
Closest Airfield: FASH
Location: Somerset West
Has liked: 17 times
Been liked: 68 times

Re: Light aircraft down Pretoria.

Unread post by MLyons » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:46 pm

:shock: :shock: #-o
Golf Tango wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm
We were flipping some Pretoria Boys High boys the previous Friday at Kittyhawk. The gentleman killed in this accident was one of the pilots there, although he didn't flip any of them, he was flying the accident plane there. There was a thanks ceremony after and in the back ground the the deceased was doing all kinds of aerobatics in the KR2. Most of the guys (high time aerobatics pilots mostly) were amazed with how he was flying that plane as was I. Means we had never seen a KR2 flown like that 😱. I remarked to my colleagues that the airframe whistled nicely. Shame.
You toucha my stuff, I breaka you face.
Idiot in search of a village........never mind - found it!

Return to “Academy & Flight Safety”