Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Chalkie » Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:35 pm

MadMacs wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:45 pm
Do you remember that JAL B747 that had the aft pressure bulkhead fail and blow the tail off?
The failure of the rear pressure bulkhead (due to a badly done repair, after a tail scrape) resulted in severing all 4 hydraulic system's pipes to rear flight controls. The aircraft flew for quite long before crashing. I do not recall a loss of control surfaces. Only the hydraulic pressure.

Sorry for thread drift...
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Volo » Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:27 pm

Chalkie wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:35 pm
MadMacs wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:45 pm
Do you remember that JAL B747 that had the aft pressure bulkhead fail and blow the tail off?
The failure of the rear pressure bulkhead (due to a badly done repair, after a tail scrape) resulted in severing all 4 hydraulic system's pipes to rear flight controls. The aircraft flew for quite long before crashing. I do not recall a loss of control surfaces. Only the hydraulic pressure.

Sorry for thread drift...
...........
Chalkie - I have just read up on the JAL 747 accident .They did in fact lose the entire vertical fin and hydraulic control unit . They retained a degree of control for about 30 minutes with differential power applications .
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by ddevos » Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:43 pm

It was China Airlines Flight 611 that lost its tail completely due to explosive decompression, 22 years to the day after improper repairs following a tail strike.
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Raffles » Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:17 pm

Latest from AvHerald https://avherald.com/h?article=4f64be2f&opt=0
On Mar 26th 2022 the CAAC reported in their 6th press conference, that the part found in Yatang was identified as trailing edge of a winglet of the crashed aircraft. Another piece of debris was found about 2.3km north of the debris at Yatang in Lixiu Village. The arc-shaped object is being examined and identified. The search for the second black box is still underway, in the meantime an ELT was found at the main crash site near the location where the already recovered black box had been found. 120 of the occupants of the aircraft (thereof 114 crew and 6 crew) have so far been identified.** No common explosives, inorganic or organic, have been discovered so far in 66 samples in 41 tests. A preliminary report in both Chinese and English will be submitted to ICAO within a month (until Apr 21st 2022).
**I presume they mean that the identities have been established. I can't see any intact remains will be found after crashing at 500mph
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Frontiersman » Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:28 pm

Chalkie wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:35 pm
MadMacs wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:45 pm
Do you remember that JAL B747 that had the aft pressure bulkhead fail and blow the tail off?
The failure of the rear pressure bulkhead (due to a badly done repair, after a tail scrape) resulted in severing all 4 hydraulic system's pipes to rear flight controls. The aircraft flew for quite long before crashing. I do not recall a loss of control surfaces. Only the hydraulic pressure.

Sorry for thread drift...
Check the Wikipedia article, there's a photo that was taken from the ground that shows the aircraft in flight with the complete vertical stabilizer missing. When the pressure bulkhead let go, the pressurized air from the cabin rushing into the tailfin blew it off. Amazing how powerful this blast of air can be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air ... Flight_123
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by wingnutzster » Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:34 am

Chalkie wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:35 pm
MadMacs wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:45 pm
Do you remember that JAL B747 that had the aft pressure bulkhead fail and blow the tail off?
The failure of the rear pressure bulkhead (due to a badly done repair, after a tail scrape) resulted in severing all 4 hydraulic system's pipes to rear flight controls. The aircraft flew for quite long before crashing. I do not recall a loss of control surfaces. Only the hydraulic pressure.

Sorry for thread drift...
Negative, most of the vertical stabilizer and rudder were blown off along with the severed hydraulic lines, the aircraft was uncontrollable and not stable as reported by the crew before it eventually flipped over and impacted inverted - it was JAL123 - I watched that episode of Black Box a thousand times as a teen :wink: :wink: .
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Pete » Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:51 am

Would the aircraft not then dive in flames?
[/quote]

Could well be, yes.
Another scenario could be a failure or seperation of the horizontal stabilizer. I hope they release the DFDR data so we can finally get closer to what happened.
[/quote]

If the video is accurate, then:
1) there would not be flames, as the air speed would be way too high for combustion.
2) a horizontal stabilizer is required to maintain a vertical dive (if the wings are still attached) - without the stabilizer it would tumble.
[/quote]

I'm with you on this one Justin.. my take is that the dive was controlled.. time and accumulated actual info will tell..
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Wingnutter » Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:00 am

Can’t vouch for accuracy of attached, but I would certainly bet on suicide - unusual for an FO to have that number of hours which raises flags.

One thing you can be sure of though - the truth will be covered up.
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Wingnutter » Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:15 am

Lots of red flags here…

“ Zhengping was amongst China's most experienced commercial pilots, with 31,769 hours, and a flight instructor for China Eastern, having trained more than 100 captains; he was awarded the honorary title "Meritorious Pilot" of civil aviation in 2011.”

10396457-81F8-4903-8054-8877707600D4.jpeg
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by jimdavis » Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:50 am

Fox News is now reporting that the second black box has been found.

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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Gandolf » Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:38 pm

Wingnutter wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:00 am
Can’t vouch for accuracy of attached, but I would certainly bet on suicide - unusual for an FO to have that number of hours which raises flags.

One thing you can be sure of though - the truth will be covered up.
I think the term first officer/ Co- pilot was lost in translation, the first officer in this case appears to be a training Captain acting as first officer on this flight.
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Richard Smit » Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:55 pm

Gandolf wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:38 pm
Wingnutter wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:00 am
Can’t vouch for accuracy of attached, but I would certainly bet on suicide - unusual for an FO to have that number of hours which raises flags.

One thing you can be sure of though - the truth will be covered up.
I think the term first officer/ Co- pilot was lost in translation, the first officer in this case appears to be a training Captain acting as first officer on this flight.
Yet the article states that the P2 was demoted to First Officer (from Senior Trg Captain), due to an EGPWS event and a failed sim ride.

If that is the case, I can imagine the toxicity of the cockpit vibe, and the “stink” that the actual Captain would need to deal with. This without even considering the lack of “Just Culture” within that airline.

As earlier stated… LOTS of red flags if this article is based on truth.
Last edited by Richard Smit on Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by ACE MAN » Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:44 am

Richard Smit wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:55 pm
Gandolf wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:38 pm
Wingnutter wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:00 am
Can’t vouch for accuracy of attached, but I would certainly bet on suicide - unusual for an FO to have that number of hours which raises flags.

One thing you can be sure of though - the truth will be covered up.
I think the term first officer/ Co- pilot was lost in translation, the first officer in this case appears to be a training Captain acting as first officer on this flight.
Yet the article states that the P2 was demoted to First Officer (from Senior Trg Captain), due to an EGPWS event and a failed sim ride.

If that is the case, I can imagine the toxicity of the cockpit vibe, and the “stink” that the actual Captain would need to deal with. This without even considering the lack of “Just Culture” within that airline.

As earlier stated… LOTS of red flags if this article is based on truth.
Richard, I think you are on the right track, would be a difficult flight deck to manage by a low time CN.
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by kosmonooit » Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:23 pm

Wingnutter wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:00 am
Can’t vouch for accuracy of attached, but I would certainly bet on suicide - unusual for an FO to have that number of hours which raises flags.

One thing you can be sure of though - the truth will be covered up.
Eish that is one mish mash of misinformation
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Dragon » Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:07 am

Raffles wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:17 pm
Latest from AvHerald https://avherald.com/h?article=4f64be2f&opt=0
On Mar 26th 2022 the CAAC reported in their 6th press conference, that the part found in Yatang was identified as trailing edge of a winglet of the crashed aircraft. Another piece of debris was found about 2.3km north of the debris at Yatang in Lixiu Village. The arc-shaped object is being examined and identified. The search for the second black box is still underway, in the meantime an ELT was found at the main crash site near the location where the already recovered black box had been found. 120 of the occupants of the aircraft (thereof 114 crew and 6 crew) have so far been identified.** No common explosives, inorganic or organic, have been discovered so far in 66 samples in 41 tests. A preliminary report in both Chinese and English will be submitted to ICAO within a month (until Apr 21st 2022).
**I presume they mean that the identities have been established. I can't see any intact remains will be found after crashing at 500mph
They don’t need intact bodies just DNA

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