Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

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Neo
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by Neo » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:35 am

Burner wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:06 pm
The fact that SAX also seems to have a very few CRJ 200s flying points to what Arthur has said, what it could be is a SB or avionics software upgrade that is due specifically on the CRJ, and possibly due to the time of year, parts/expertise availability there is a delay doing this.
Is that not the TCAS II 7.1 issue?

Neo.
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by grjplanes » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:16 am

Seems the nonstop JNB-GRJ flights for today and tomorrow is now scheduled for DH4
Other usual CRJ routes also shuffling between the Dash's...CPT-HDS with DH3/DH4 last few days, JNB-BFN-GRJ varying between all 3 variants (today DH1).
I actually booked a GRJ-JNB basically to tick off the CR9, but seems it might be DH4 now
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by Peter John » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:13 am

"...smoke, mirrors and unsubstantiated claims..." :roll: No CRJ's..DH8's flying flat out... :-k
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by Peter John » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:32 am

HJK 414 wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:01 pm
MIAP wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:24 pm
Burner wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:52 pm


At least one CRJ, ZS-CMB has been flying recently between Cape Town and Hoedspruit. The rest don't seem to have been doing much.
Moderators Message:
Defamatory statement removed.

MIAP,

Perhaps you would be well advised to pay attention to what you post on a public media..... :wink:
You are skirting a line that may land you in trouble

A tad more careful ?? ..... you may be asked to back up statements - in court !!

JK
HJK 414,
Perhaps you should allow MIAP and the likes their opinions :wink: and refrain from allusions to potential legal action [-X as MIAP's (and other's) statements appear, thus far, to have more merit than you care to acknowledge :wink:
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by HJK 414 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:52 am

Peter John wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:32 am

HJK 414,
Perhaps you should allow MIAP and the likes their opinions :wink: and refrain from allusions to potential legal action [-X as MIAP's (and other's) statements appear, thus far, to have more merit than you care to acknowledge :wink:


Peter John,

You only joined in 2018 - so perhaps you were not here / did not read through the "Mauler" / vs SACAA / vs Avcom saga?
The lesson learnt in that event was that comments can have serious consequences - not only for the poster (many are known) but also for the owners of Avcom (as in legal action towards them).

I was not reacting to the "content" of his post - was not my place to "judge" his "opinion".
My appeal to MIAP was simply meant to warn him that he was skating on the line.



JK
The wisest mind has something yet to learn. ...
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by DJB » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:42 pm

Neo wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:34 am
DJB wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:51 pm
kilos wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:44 pm
According to CEMair website, they are operational
Yes but not their CRJ fleet apparently.
Your source please.

NEO
This is via the aviation rumour mill. Although the Cemair guys who are on here also haven’t said anything to the contrary.
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by happyskipper » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:21 pm

DJB wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:42 pm
Neo wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:34 am
DJB wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:51 pm


Yes but not their CRJ fleet apparently.
Your source please.

NEO

This is via the aviation rumour mill. Although the Cemair guys who are on here also haven’t said anything to the contrary.
OMG - then it MUST be true!! :shock: (Sarcasm intended)

I bow my head in deference to the "aviation rumour mill", and place absolutely no credence to the various posts of those (apparently few) employees of Cemair who are prepared to show support to their employer, and who do not find it necessary to keep their identities hidden.......... Who are then attacked, anonymously, thereby shaming them into NOT making their opinions known on this forum.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't - let me make this quite clear, I have no horse in this race, and have no interest in seeing either side of this argument win - however, I do not like the stench of premeditated rumor-mongering and belittling of anyone who does not "fit in" with the outspoken critics of Cemair, their CEO and staff.

If you don't have hard facts and substantive evidence, all you are doing is prolonging a very painful and harmful experience for those who do stand to lose their livelihoods in this "game".

This is becoming a he-said, she-said scenario, and nothing of any value is being learned here.... except that the aviation industry has become infested by those who love nothing more than to revel in the suffering and angst of their "competitors".

Sorry, Mods, but I can't stand around and watch the one-sided attacks that go unanswered, because everyone is afraid of upsetting the "know-it-alls"...... go ahead and ban me from avcom, I no longer wish to participate in this trial by rumour mill process, anyway.......
Mark 8)
AKA "happyslipper", "slappykipper" ... etc.. :lol:
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by HJK 414 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:14 am

happyskipper wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:21 pm

OMG - then it MUST be true!! :shock: (Sarcasm intended)e

I bow my head in deference to the "aviation rumour mill",.........

..........Sorry, Mods, but I can't stand around and watch the one-sided attacks that go unanswered, because everyone is afraid of upsetting the "know-it-alls"...... go ahead and ban me from avcom, I no longer wish to participate in this trial by rumour mill process, anyway.......

Mark,

It has become a tad opaque - and I somehow share your frustration, albeit that the owners of Avcom have to protect their interests as well and it has become quite a task in the modern world we live in.

On the Academy - "speculation is encouraged"
Speculation is defined as : the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

Yet - If you post the following : It looks like the SAA pilot was drunk when he ..... etc etc ......
Even though you have no firm evidence - and it is speculation - (call it a rumor mill process if you like) it becomes slippery.
You are forming an opinion - have no hard facts, no real intent to damage anyone - simply expressing a conjecture - yet you could be looking at defamation charges.

as Defamation is described as : the action of damaging the good reputation of someone.
Now the Pilot / or his employer could jump up and state - you have no hard evidence - therefore you are potentially damaging my reputation - and I will sue for libel / slander / defamation ..... Or legally approach Avcom and insist the post is removed as it is potentially defamation - And now you may be asked to back up your "opinion" - which was only an opinion under the Speculation side of the equation ..... #-o

I find it hard to describe things on Avcom lately.
It has come about that i know - (fact / not hearsay) about the cause of an event - yet I can not post that on Avcom - because I am not prepared to reveal the source if asked to do so. And posting it without being prepared to back it up is frowned upon - yet "speculation encouraged"
Though when I post it as "speculation" - I could find myself (or place the Mods / owners of Avcom) in a precarious position as we have seen in the SACAA / "Mauler" / Avcom saga .....

Therefore - we are stuck with the status quo - and will have to work with it.
Yet - leaving Avcom is not the solution pal ...... just work around it and we will take it from there...... :wink:

JK


ps - Thread drift - I know....
I am not a lawyer - and I am sure Eddie could elaborate further if requested - and more to the point.
All I tried to do is explain the quandary we sometimes find ourselves in .... without having to weigh everything from a legal standpoint.
The wisest mind has something yet to learn. ...
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by PJL » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:43 am

The mods have no problem with speculation so long as it is not defamatory or a personal attack on someone. We also allow a little leeway when a topic drifts a bit but we do encourage posters to keep to the topic.

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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by HJK 414 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:13 pm

PJL wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:43 am
The mods have no problem with speculation so long as it is not defamatory or a personal attack on someone. We also allow a little leeway when a topic drifts a bit but we do encourage posters to keep to the topic.

PJL

Hi PJL

I was not trying to start a debate - but it has become a thin line ......
Some topics and organisations have become "sensitive".
I realize that for the Mods there is a "grey" area - but for some of us - it is difficult to find the exact line ....

Let's stay on the same topic - as an example only !

If I were to post - Is there an senior SACAA manager that is "creating opportunity" for a potential buyer / financing organisation ?, the grounding seems to be very opportune and the timing ......... etc..etc etc .......

The MODS would probably jump on it and ask me to back it up - delete it or ban me .....
Yet I could state that I was "speculating" .....

Now - if I was to state - there seems to be a concerted effort by the regulator ?, the same senior person is always present when "enforcing", I wonder whether there is a secondary, perhaps "financial opportunity" being sought ............. etc .......
It is accepted and probably seen as "latitude" or "leeway" by the MODS.
Or I could add - thankfully this could only happen in other countries .............. :wink:

Yet - I am doing nothing different than the first post - yet the line I am following is only in formulation ....... it remains speculation ...

I realize that Avcom - (Roger and Chris) have interests that need to be shielded - but at times it is awkward.

Once again - I only reacted to Mark's exasperation - no intent to re-start the T&C debate .... [-X

Cheers

JK
Last edited by HJK 414 on Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by ArthurDent » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:35 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:13 pm
PJL wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:43 am
The mods have no problem with speculation so long as it is not defamatory or a personal attack on someone. We also allow a little leeway when a topic drifts a bit but we do encourage posters to keep to the topic.

PJL
...

Now - if I was to state -

...

JK
Amazing how you can even use a discussion about posting guidelines to push your conspiracy theory.
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by HJK 414 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:38 pm

ArthurDent wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:35 pm

Amazing how you can even use a discussion about posting guidelines to push your conspiracy theory.

You missed a part ....... :wink:

It has come about that i know - (fact / not hearsay) about the cause of an event - yet I can not post that on Avcom - because I am not prepared to reveal the source if asked to do so.


You have to keep seeing things in context ...... it is Avcom "speculation" .......
And the whole debate is about "the aviation rumor mill" which aggravated Mark (Happyskipper) to the extent that I felt I had to react
Perhaps that clears up some confusion .....

And this is the last I am prepared to say about it.....

JK
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by Swartbok » Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:08 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:38 pm
ArthurDent wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:35 pm

Amazing how you can even use a discussion about posting guidelines to push your conspiracy theory.

You missed a part ....... :wink:

It has come about that i know - (fact / not hearsay) about the cause of an event - yet I can not post that on Avcom - because I am not prepared to reveal the source if asked to do so.


You have to keep seeing things in context ...... it is Avcom "speculation" .......
And the whole debate is about "the aviation rumor mill" which aggravated Mark (Happyskipper) to the extent that I felt I had to react
Perhaps that clears up some confusion .....

And this is the last I am prepared to say about it.....

JK
It has turned Avcom into a courtroom, and to wonder why the pro’s and many others are quiet, and not really willing to share much.
Go figure.

In the Avcom community lately, if you ask your neighbor to trim his tree, you first need to supply absolute proof with documentation and names and courtroom evidence with a judgement that it is actually his tree or causes a nuisance.
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by Peter John » Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:58 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:14 am
happyskipper wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:21 pm

OMG - then it MUST be true!! :shock: (Sarcasm intended)e

I bow my head in deference to the "aviation rumour mill",.........

..........Sorry, Mods, but I can't stand around and watch the one-sided attacks that go unanswered, because everyone is afraid of upsetting the "know-it-alls"...... go ahead and ban me from avcom, I no longer wish to participate in this trial by rumour mill process, anyway.......

Mark,

It has become a tad opaque - and I somehow share your frustration, albeit that the owners of Avcom have to protect their interests as well and it has become quite a task in the modern world we live in.

On the Academy - "speculation is encouraged"
Speculation is defined as : the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

Yet - If you post the following : It looks like the SAA pilot was drunk when he ..... etc etc ......
Even though you have no firm evidence - and it is speculation - (call it a rumor mill process if you like) it becomes slippery.
You are forming an opinion - have no hard facts, no real intent to damage anyone - simply expressing a conjecture - yet you could be looking at defamation charges.

as Defamation is described as : the action of damaging the good reputation of someone.
Now the Pilot / or his employer could jump up and state - you have no hard evidence - therefore you are potentially damaging my reputation - and I will sue for libel / slander / defamation ..... Or legally approach Avcom and insist the post is removed as it is potentially defamation - And now you may be asked to back up your "opinion" - which was only an opinion under the Speculation side of the equation ..... #-o

I find it hard to describe things on Avcom lately.
It has come about that i know - (fact / not hearsay) about the cause of an event - yet I can not post that on Avcom - because I am not prepared to reveal the source if asked to do so. And posting it without being prepared to back it up is frowned upon - yet "speculation encouraged"
Though when I post it as "speculation" - I could find myself (or place the Mods / owners of Avcom) in a precarious position as we have seen in the SACAA / "Mauler" / Avcom saga .....

Therefore - we are stuck with the status quo - and will have to work with it.
Yet - leaving Avcom is not the solution pal ...... just work around it and we will take it from there...... :wink:

JK


ps - Thread drift - I know....
I am not a lawyer - and I am sure Eddie could elaborate further if requested - and more to the point.
All I tried to do is explain the quandary we sometimes find ourselves in .... without having to weigh everything from a legal standpoint.
Certain the New Year will shed more light..but in the interim, the comments expressed here are both tainted and fact based..depending on who posts. It is naive to overlook that a number of said company members have more than one alias on this site..from their top down..hence cannot subscribe to supporters being "transparent and upstanding, with everything to lose" and those offering alternative opinions as "rumour mongering, gutless revelers". Neutral, pro or not..we are primarily offering opinions we know to be true..or want others to.

I find it amusingly frustrating to have moderators being shadowed by those dispensing "advice"..considering that advice is their own interpretation of events and are often the biggest agenda drivers. Let the moderators moderate.
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Re: Cemair grounded again

Unread post by HarryC » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:38 pm

It is reported that the CRJ900 ZS-CMP was ferried yesterday Malta to Khartoum.

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