Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

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Falafel
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by Falafel » Thu May 23, 2019 3:53 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 3:29 pm
Jack Welles wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:47 pm

Somewhat melodramatic!

The "global community" doesn't give a tinkers what happens in the interplay between a minor regulatory authority and a small, inconsequential airline. …….

Eddie,

There may be more to that statement than just being melodramatic.


JK
Jackie Selebi was President of Interpol from 2004–2008. One thinks South Africans place too much hope in the International Community really caring about what happens in SA. There are many more instances where they turn a blind eye to what is happening in SA and Google Cemair and nothing comes up from any International Press whatsoever.
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by Jack Welles » Thu May 23, 2019 4:13 pm

It may affect her personally but I really don't think the wider world gives a tinkers about what happens in that sort of scenario. There's all sorts of odd sods in these International regulatory positions (they're almost a sinecure) UN one's, as well.

As an aside: "all and sundry"? I really haven't had the impression that that is the case - I really don't think so (not that I've heard of anyway although I don't particularly follow it so open to correction).

My view is that in the bigger scheme of things they're having minor dust-up with a minor airline in a minor country - I really don't think it's earth-shattering stuff (but please note not saying that it isn't important to the actual players involved and those exposed as collateral damage, like pilots). Much more important is trump and the Chinese, for example, or what's going to happen with Brexit etc
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Thu May 23, 2019 4:27 pm

Jack Welles wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:47 pm
Johan.botha wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:05 pm
The global community is watching this. The judgement is shared far and wide and this is becoming the litmus test for SA at a time of change. Does the gov step in and protect its citizens from unlawful acts or does it let the CAA do whatever it wants.
Somewhat melodramatic!

The "global community" doesn't give a tinkers what happens in the interplay between a minor regulatory authority and a small, inconsequential airline. They are much more interested in what's going to happen to Eskom (and its debt) and the other SOE's and whether the on-going Commissions of Inquiry are going to produce practical results, basically will Cyril produce the goods.
The "global community" or at least parts thereof also have their hands full in many instances with their own regulator, whether real or perceived.

We are making out that South Africa is the only country were feuds between the aviation community and regulators occur. We blame anything from BEEE to state capture to reverse racism. Hate to disappoint but my time in the USA says differently. Its like deja vu.
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by Jack Welles » Thu May 23, 2019 6:54 pm

Airwayfreak wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:27 pm
We are making out that South Africa is the only country were feuds between the aviation community and regulators occur. We blame anything from BEEE to state capture to reverse racism. Hate to disappoint but my time in the USA says differently. Its like deja vu.
"It's like deja vu, all over again." Yogi Berra :lol:

Yep, it's a big world out there and people are mostly the same wherever you go. FAA have just said that Boeing was trying it on when they recently announced that the Max software was sorted.

"They gave it to us," the FAA spokesman said. "We had a look at it. Needed more information (sound familiar?) and sent it back to them. No, they are not ready to fly it yet."

Damn regulators, who the hell do they thing they are? Demi-gods? :twisted:
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by apollo11 » Fri May 24, 2019 9:29 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:54 pm
Airwayfreak wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:27 pm
We are making out that South Africa is the only country were feuds between the aviation community and regulators occur. We blame anything from BEEE to state capture to reverse racism. Hate to disappoint but my time in the USA says differently. Its like deja vu.
"It's like deja vu, all over again." Yogi Berra :lol:

Yep, it's a big world out there and people are mostly the same wherever you go. FAA have just said that Boeing was trying it on when they recently announced that the Max software was sorted.

"They gave it to us," the FAA spokesman said. "We had a look at it. Needed more information (sound familiar?) and sent it back to them. No, they are not ready to fly it yet."

Damn regulators, who the hell do they thing they are? Demi-gods? :twisted:
Some post back you mentioned nobody cares about our little itsy bitsy overstaffed CAA? Actually, they do, international investors are not just looking at the SOE and government policies issue but also close scrutiny of local impacts of non-SOE's.

The savvy investors are looking at issues and concerns with local government, opposition parties, regulatory bodies such as the CAA is a manifestation of a government going wrong and that is a measurement for doing other business in SA where the impact is felt similarly.

Some investors will and do have an aviation interest in their investment decisions that could involve their local operations but also other impacts and areas with behavioral attitudes at following higher authority concerns and recommendations inciting a law unto themselves culture.

I had lunch with a bunch of overseas folks recently, some of them had knowledge of local conditions and government that I did not even have if ever I've seen investors wanting to take their money elsewhere, it was in that bunch. Interestingly two of them were active GA pilots.

Back to the FAA

The FAA is massive, monstrous, SAA CAA a puny bad little sideshow compared but proportionately completely out of sorts for their clientele. Read staff numbers, policies, and politics.

The FAA, their decisions and their involvement impacts the globe, thousands and thousands of US-made aircraft permeate the planet, many non-US aircraft look to the FAA approvals for their aircraft again for global impact.

If there was ever a personal agenda with an FAA official, there is a rapid response from AOPA, internal FAA and a host of other bodies to quickly root out that rot.

No, they are not perfect (certainly were found wanting on the 737 MAX) what is ignored is the massive amounts of successful operations over decades, that has impacted the globe, but compared to the sideshow we have in the SA CAA(that think they are hot shot) but they really are decades behind, not only in operations but culture thinking toward aviation (paper-based licenses were tossed out in the '80s, their wings safety program has been up for 2 decades... too many others to mention but you get the drift.

Some numbers

At any given moment there are approximately 5,000 aircraft traversing the U.S. skies.
The FAA is a year-round, 24/7 operation, responsible for 5.3 million square miles of U.S. domestic airspace and 24 million square miles of U.S. airspace over the oceans.
There are 43,290 average daily flights in and out of the U.S.
More than 14,000 air traffic controllers manage traffic from many of the FAA’s 700 facilities.
Fifty-five hundred airway transportation system specialists maintain more than 70,000 pieces of equipment.
Aviation contributes $1.6 trillion annually to the U.S. economy and constitutes 5.1 percent of the gross domestic product.
Approximately 700,000 pilots, active reduced slightly to around 650.000
Aviation generates 10 million jobs in the U.S. annually.

The FAA certifies the design of aircraft and components that are used in civil aviation operations. We are performance-based, proactive, centered on managing risk, and focused on continuous improvement. Aircraft certification has relied on the exchange of information and technical data which has helped reduce the risk of commercial aviation fatalities by 94 percent over the past 20 years.

NextGen is not one technology, product, or goal. The NextGen portfolio encompasses the planning and implementation of innovative new technologies and airspace procedures after thorough testing for safety. Through research, innovation, and collaboration, NextGen is setting standards around the world and further establishing the FAA's global leadership in aviation.

The use of designees has been a part of the fabric of global aviation for decades. Congress specifically directed the FAA to make full use of delegation authority in the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018.

And some official at CAA wants a top job in ICAO, I think there are hundreds, no, thousands more appropriately qualified people with substantial real-world aviation experience that run their ships far more effectively.

All said I admit there are some darn fine gems at CAA. But can they make enough impact to senior management and our aviation environment?
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Fri May 24, 2019 2:16 pm

apollo11 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:29 am

If there was ever a personal agenda with an FAA official, there is a rapid response from AOPA, internal FAA and a host of other bodies to quickly root out that rot.
AOPA-USA would not get involved in matters pertaining to airline business as is the case here in SA.
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by Falafel » Fri May 24, 2019 2:21 pm

Airwayfreak wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 2:16 pm
apollo11 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:29 am

If there was ever a personal agenda with an FAA official, there is a rapid response from AOPA, internal FAA and a host of other bodies to quickly root out that rot.
AOPA-USA would not get involved in matters pertaining to airline business as is the case here in SA.
Would / Should CAASA in SA be involved here?
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Fri May 24, 2019 2:24 pm

Falafel wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 2:21 pm
Airwayfreak wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 2:16 pm
apollo11 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:29 am

If there was ever a personal agenda with an FAA official, there is a rapid response from AOPA, internal FAA and a host of other bodies to quickly root out that rot.
AOPA-USA would not get involved in matters pertaining to airline business as is the case here in SA.
Would / Should CAASA in SA be involved here?
I would think it's the more appropriate body but I am not sure if CemAir is a member. Let me do a quick check
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by apollo11 » Fri May 24, 2019 3:29 pm

Falafel wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 2:21 pm
Airwayfreak wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 2:16 pm
apollo11 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:29 am

If there was ever a personal agenda with an FAA official, there is a rapid response from AOPA, internal FAA and a host of other bodies to quickly root out that rot.
AOPA-USA would not get involved in matters pertaining to airline business as is the case here in SA.
Would / Should CAASA in SA be involved here?
I know AOPA USA would not get involved with the airline business that was a GA in general comment, and a blurred inclusion, typed that out badly
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by CAAworker » Fri May 24, 2019 5:28 pm

CAAworker wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:29 pm
Moderators Message:
Profile details are fake. Content removed. Please see T&Cs
Of course I didn't use my correct details, I don't trust Avcom to keep my identity secret. Don't forget who I am dealing with here, remember how Anton Richman left the CAA? I don't even do this on my own PC. I have children that need food and a parent.

That post was pretty benign, almost all of it would be generally accepted as how people feel about the place.
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Fri May 24, 2019 5:47 pm

CAAworker wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 5:28 pm
CAAworker wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:29 pm
Moderators Message:
Profile details are fake. Content removed. Please see T&Cs
Of course I didn't use my correct details, I don't trust Avcom to keep my identity secret. Don't forget who I am dealing with here, remember how Anton Richman left the CAA? I don't even do this on my own PC. I have children that need food and a parent.

That post was pretty benign, almost all of it would be generally accepted as how people feel about the place.
I hear you loud and clear. I would suggest that in future you consider direct implications or anything which must have some significant level of proof as details which should be wisely worded or not included at all. But please don't take the mods actions personal they are trying to keep a very delicate balance on information. You surely would understand this.

So please stay on and keep posting just give it some thought before submitting. There is always a chance that your intentions are by design and details are untrue but for now I'm listening and I'm sure the benefit of the doubt is in your favor. :D
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Re: Cemair grounded - wins Appeal yet again!

Unread post by Burner » Fri May 24, 2019 5:51 pm

CAAworker wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 5:28 pm
CAAworker wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:29 pm
Moderators Message:
Profile details are fake. Content removed. Please see T&Cs
Of course I didn't use my correct details, I don't trust Avcom to keep my identity secret. Don't forget who I am dealing with here, remember how Anton Richman left the CAA? I don't even do this on my own PC. I have children that need food and a parent.

That post was pretty benign, almost all of it would be generally accepted as how people feel about the place.
I'm busy looking for a gif of someone also playing a sad violin... I'm just so amazed you ran with this to Avcom, instead of a real media outlet.
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