May I fly my drone over Town

Unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), commonly known as a drone and also referred to as an unpiloted aerial vehicle and a remotely piloted aircraft (RPA) by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), is an aircraft without a human pilot aboard.

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Re: May I fly my drone over Town

Unread post by Roger » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:25 am

The mods have cleaned up this thread some. Would request that you take a read here before posting any more aggressive responses: https://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopi ... 1&t=227742
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Re: May I fly my drone over Town

Unread post by heisan » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:07 am

Mouser wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:44 am
I am considering buying a drone to take site progress photographs (with the Employer's permission always) after seeing how these are used for planning from an ex SA engineer now in NZ. Some are in urban areas. I probably need to check SA regulations in detail but the small extract giving the 7kg machine weight, if I read it correctly, would seem to allow what I was looking at (Mavic Pro weighing about 1kg) to be flown?
Does your intended use if the drone meet the following definition:
“private operation” means the use of an RPA for an individual’s personal and private purposes where there is no commercial outcome, interest or gain;
If not, you probably need a RPL and ROC (but probably not an ASL) to operate it.
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Re: May I fly my drone over Town

Unread post by Mouser » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:08 am

heisan wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:07 am
Mouser wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:44 am
I am considering buying a drone to take site progress photographs (with the Employer's permission always) after seeing how these are used for planning from an ex SA engineer now in NZ. Some are in urban areas. I probably need to check SA regulations in detail but the small extract giving the 7kg machine weight, if I read it correctly, would seem to allow what I was looking at (Mavic Pro weighing about 1kg) to be flown?
Does your intended use if the drone meet the following definition:
“private operation” means the use of an RPA for an individual’s personal and private purposes where there is no commercial outcome, interest or gain;
If not, you probably need a RPL and ROC (but probably not an ASL) to operate it.
Thank you for condensing the test. Maybe childish but it is not clear. I would not charge for drone use or the photographs directly but they would be annotated, "printed" (electronically anyway), circulated, used in discussion and to monitor progress. I would absorb the drone costs in my company's fees. Just a tool.
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Re: May I fly my drone over Town

Unread post by heisan » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:47 am

Mouser wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:08 am
Thank you for condensing the test. Maybe childish but it is not clear. I would not charge for drone use or the photographs directly but they would be annotated, "printed" (electronically anyway), circulated, used in discussion and to monitor progress. I would absorb the drone costs in my company's fees. Just a tool.
Eish - you would have to ask a lawyer that - but to me it seems that it is being used to further the aims of your company (therefore not private use).
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Re: May I fly my drone over Town

Unread post by Shepherd » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:18 pm

Mouser wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:08 am
heisan wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:07 am
Mouser wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:44 am
I am considering buying a drone to take site progress photographs (with the Employer's permission always) after seeing how these are used for planning from an ex SA engineer now in NZ. Some are in urban areas. I probably need to check SA regulations in detail but the small extract giving the 7kg machine weight, if I read it correctly, would seem to allow what I was looking at (Mavic Pro weighing about 1kg) to be flown?
Does your intended use if the drone meet the following definition:
“private operation” means the use of an RPA for an individual’s personal and private purposes where there is no commercial outcome, interest or gain;
If not, you probably need a RPL and ROC (but probably not an ASL) to operate it.
Thank you for condensing the test. Maybe childish but it is not clear. I would not charge for drone use or the photographs directly but they would be annotated, "printed" (electronically anyway), circulated, used in discussion and to monitor progress. I would absorb the drone costs in my company's fees. Just a tool.

You would be definition of the law need an ROC, which is made up from a number of certs and licenses of which one is an ASL.
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Re: May I fly my drone over Town

Unread post by heisan » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:56 pm

Shepherd wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:18 pm
You would be definition of the law need an ROC, which is made up from a number of certs and licenses of which one is an ASL.
Actually, the other way around - the ROC is a requirement for an ASL. But in this case, it will likely be classified as a 'corporate operation' (unclear - whoever amended the Part 93 regs also amended the definition of 'corporate operation', so it is now out of sync with Part 101). For a corporate operation, a ROC is still required, but not an ASL.
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Re: May I fly my drone over Town

Unread post by Shepherd » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:12 pm

heisan wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:56 pm
Shepherd wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:18 pm
You would be definition of the law need an ROC, which is made up from a number of certs and licenses of which one is an ASL.
Actually, the other way around - the ROC is a requirement for an ASL. But in this case, it will likely be classified as a 'corporate operation' (unclear - whoever amended the Part 93 regs also amended the definition of 'corporate operation', so it is now out of sync with Part 101). For a corporate operation, a ROC is still required, but not an ASL.
Thanks Heisan,

I am not familiar with the details of Part 93 and will check it out thank you.

Was not so much trying to define the phases of the process but rather that both of those are essentially needed at the end to operate.

Like all laws, it's the interpretation of the law that matters when arguing a case.

If I read the SACAA materials about the commercial operation versus private (again I am not familiar with Part 93 so I will go and read up about Corporate Operation side of things), the example brought up here would for me appear that it would have a commercial outcome, interest or gain.

Basing that on the below:
For private use –

(a) The RPAS may only be used for an individual's personal and private purposes where there is no commercial outcome, interest or gain;
RPAS Operators Certificate

​To initiate the process, the potential operator shall submit a "Letter of intent". Click Forms tab on the right for more to access a form.

Pre-requisites

Commercial Operations:

Air Service License (ASL) issued by the Air Service License Council (which resides at the Department of Transport). Even though ASL is a pre-requisite before issuance of an ROC, both application processes (ASL and ROC) may run concurrently.

Corporate and Non-profit Operations:

Nil


Application process

The Applicant will have to follow the 5 Phase process.
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Re: May I fly my drone over Town

Unread post by heisan » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:51 pm

Part 93 is for manned corporate ops. Part 101 has the details for RPAS corporate ops. The problem is that all definitions are in Part 1, and are shared. So when the definition of 'corporate operations' was updated with a Part 93 amendment, it also affects Part 101 (to the point where technically, corporate ops may not be legal at all in Part 101).
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Re: May I fly my drone over Town

Unread post by Shepherd » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:08 pm

heisan wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:51 pm
Part 93 is for manned corporate ops. Part 101 has the details for RPAS corporate ops. The problem is that all definitions are in Part 1, and are shared. So when the definition of 'corporate operations' was updated with a Part 93 amendment, it also affects Part 101 (to the point where technically, corporate ops may not be legal at all in Part 101).
I understand what you mean, thanks for that \:D/
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Re: May I fly my drone over Town

Unread post by Mouser » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:31 am

Thanks, pretty clearly laid out. I have, on behalf of the Employer, engaged drone surveyors (for myself I was just talking pictures; not surveying) on a number of occasions, only one definitely a fully licenced professional who obtained all the permissions needed. There is a significant commercial market out there, a good number of operators and, for dump or stockpile operations, very economical rather than ground survey. For detail, ground survey every time, maybe in conjunction with a drone.

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