Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

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southside
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by southside » Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:09 pm

GeraldNagel wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:04 pm
Another possibility perhaps? Pilot lost his licence when this pic became viral.
This looks very fake to me? Photoshopped? The screens are weirdly blurred, the overhead panels look like a picture out of flight simulator.

Maybe I am wrong, just looks dodgy.
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by GeraldNagel » Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:38 pm

Just for you southside. I saw Santa Clause too but he was traveling at supersonic speed to deliver present to all little kids. :lol:

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by jimdavis » Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:15 pm

Raffles wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:59 pm
Hop Harrigan wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:21 pm
Can someone tell me what the stall speed would be at 29000’ pls?
Hop
For 65,000kg flaps up maneuver speed is approximately 210 knots indicated (Vref 40 + 70) but this is for lower altitude, The actual stall speed will be around 180 to 190 KIAS. I can't find the high altitude buffet speeds, I'll keep looking.
At a particular weight and configuration, is the indicated stall speed not the same at all altitudes?

jim
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by foxbat » Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:42 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:15 pm
Raffles wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:59 pm
Hop Harrigan wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:21 pm
Can someone tell me what the stall speed would be at 29000’ pls?
Hop
For 65,000kg flaps up maneuver speed is approximately 210 knots indicated (Vref 40 + 70) but this is for lower altitude, The actual stall speed will be around 180 to 190 KIAS. I can't find the high altitude buffet speeds, I'll keep looking.
At a particular weight and configuration, is the indicated stall speed not the same at all altitudes?

jim
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Raffles » Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:43 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:15 pm
Raffles wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:59 pm
Hop Harrigan wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:21 pm
Can someone tell me what the stall speed would be at 29000’ pls?
Hop
For 65,000kg flaps up maneuver speed is approximately 210 knots indicated (Vref 40 + 70) but this is for lower altitude, The actual stall speed will be around 180 to 190 KIAS. I can't find the high altitude buffet speeds, I'll keep looking.
At a particular weight and configuration, is the indicated stall speed not the same at all altitudes?

jim
Hello Jim,

The stall speed at high altitude ( > 20,0000 feet ) when flying at a high Mach number ( I guess > M0.5 ) will be higher due to compressibility effects. There is a fair explanation here

Use this link for more search results. https://searx.be/search?q=low+speed+buf ... ude+flight

I also use the NASA website a lot www.nasa.gov, if I can find the topic, I will share it with everyone here.
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:56 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:15 pm

At a particular weight and configuration, is the indicated stall speed not the same at all altitudes?

jim
Stall speed increases due to compressibility.

PS: Sorry, I see Jim's question was answered
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by jimdavis » Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:00 am

Raffles wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:43 pm
jimdavis wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:15 pm
Raffles wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:59 pm


For 65,000kg flaps up maneuver speed is approximately 210 knots indicated (Vref 40 + 70) but this is for lower altitude, The actual stall speed will be around 180 to 190 KIAS. I can't find the high altitude buffet speeds, I'll keep looking.
At a particular weight and configuration, is the indicated stall speed not the same at all altitudes?

jim
Hello Jim,

The stall speed at high altitude ( > 20,0000 feet ) when flying at a high Mach number ( I guess > M0.5 ) will be higher due to compressibility effects. There is a fair explanation here

Use this link for more search results. https://searx.be/search?q=low+speed+buf ... ude+flight

I also use the NASA website a lot www.nasa.gov, if I can find the topic, I will share it with everyone here.
Okay thanks Raffles, got it. It seems the shock wave causes the wing to stall at a lower angle of attack, and thus a higher TAS and IAS.

jim
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by wingnutzster » Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:31 am

I realize it's a little bit of a stretch but what about Mach Tuck? Mcrit for the 737NG series? The maximum authorized speed with Mach Trim inoperative is 0.74 Mach 480kts, the 'upset' here seems to have occurred dramatically and suddenly at around 450kts, mach trim failure? It's a rabbit hole because the discussion around Mcrit for the 737 is a long one with lots of maths and varying answers but is it at least plausible as something to tick off?
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by MadMacs » Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:58 am

There have been many pressurization controller failures with the 737 and recently a Kalula B737 had to do an emergency decent into George, and as someone mentioned a controlled descent , it could have been an emergency descent gone wrong.
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Globemaster » Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:14 am

There is the Possibility of the aircraft being shot down by a missile. Could also explain the sudden dive.
The missiles would be heat seeking at close proximity and would then take out the wing…
All systems are go!
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Christo » Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:50 am

Globemaster wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:14 am
There is the Possibility of the aircraft being shot down by a missile. Could also explain the sudden dive.
The missiles would be heat seeking at close proximity and would then take out the wing…
At that altitude it's out of range for an Igla/stinger. Would have to be a proper SAM system
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Morph » Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:07 am

Globemaster wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:14 am
There is the Possibility of the aircraft being shot down by a missile. Could also explain the sudden dive.
The missiles would be heat seeking at close proximity and would then take out the wing…
Would the aircraft not then dive in flames?
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by Globemaster » Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:20 am

Morph wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:07 am
Globemaster wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:14 am
There is the Possibility of the aircraft being shot down by a missile. Could also explain the sudden dive.
The missiles would be heat seeking at close proximity and would then take out the wing…
Would the aircraft not then dive in flames?
Could well be, yes.
Another scenario could be a failure or seperation of the horizontal stabilizer. I hope they release the DFDR data so we can finally get closer to what happened.
All systems are go!
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by heisan » Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:35 am

Globemaster wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:20 am
Morph wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:07 am
Globemaster wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:14 am
There is the Possibility of the aircraft being shot down by a missile. Could also explain the sudden dive.
The missiles would be heat seeking at close proximity and would then take out the wing…
Would the aircraft not then dive in flames?
Could well be, yes.
Another scenario could be a failure or seperation of the horizontal stabilizer. I hope they release the DFDR data so we can finally get closer to what happened.
If the video is accurate, then:
1) there would not be flames, as the air speed would be way too high for combustion.
2) a horizontal stabilizer is required to maintain a vertical dive (if the wings are still attached) - without the stabilizer it would tumble.
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Re: Boeing 737 Crash in China 2022_03_21

Unread post by southside » Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:20 pm

GeraldNagel wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:38 pm
Just for you southside. I saw Santa Clause too but he was traveling at supersonic speed to deliver present to all little kids. :lol:

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html
It seems I was wrong. Thank you Gerald.

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