Light Plane Crash Miami

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spatz
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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by spatz » Wed May 18, 2022 1:38 pm

TikkaT3 wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 11:26 am
spatz wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 11:08 am
117 wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 10:50 am
Haulover is always rough, regardless of what the water is doing on the shore line
Your point being ? I've looked at the map there were many more options than a bridge, there are so many leisure craft shown in the video there that a ditching at sea or in the marina would have had many boats on scene in a short time , then there is the Indian creek golf course, sandspur island to name a few much better options.
Because leisurely looking at it on a map is exactly the same as trying to figure out where to put it down when the engine has just quit.
Because piss poor planning of the flight gave him no back door , were you not taught to fly and plan for when not if the engine fails.
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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by spatz » Wed May 18, 2022 1:52 pm

Vogoff wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 12:53 pm
If it was busy as suggested then his choices might have been:
  • Golf course - risk hitting a golfer
  • Water - risk hitting a boat
  • Road - risk hitting a car
In which case the road may have been the best worst option? Cars offer more protection to their occupants than boats or golf carts and the ones you are likely to hit will be going in the same direction so the relative speed will be lower. Although there would have to be a lot of boats on the water to be worried about hitting one...

I fear the pilot may have been battling indecision. Its an issue I have had in the past - spend far too long overthinking and trying to optimise the solution. By the time I make a decision five good options have turned into three bad choices.
Sadly i feel its more the frequency of seeing aircraft landing on roads on You Tube giving people the feeling its an acceptable practice.

Water masses of it rick of collision very low
Golf course yes a risk of hitting golfers but they tend to be spaced out in groups looking at the sky a lot of the time
Road , narrow surrounded by obstacles and fast moving traffic and or slow moving congested traffic risk of collision pretty much guaranteed in this instance.

However as i have said it seems that its getting more prevalent to see these amazing landings on roads and that is not a good thing.
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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by Vliegskaap » Wed May 18, 2022 2:09 pm

Some interesting observations by Paul Bertorelli in this video regarding the survivability of ditching.

Also perhaps worthwhile to swing back to this topic of a couple of years ago regarding water ditching techniques.
https://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopi ... ilit=ditch

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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by TikkaT3 » Wed May 18, 2022 3:30 pm

spatz wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 1:38 pm
TikkaT3 wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 11:26 am
spatz wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 11:08 am


Your point being ? I've looked at the map there were many more options than a bridge, there are so many leisure craft shown in the video there that a ditching at sea or in the marina would have had many boats on scene in a short time , then there is the Indian creek golf course, sandspur island to name a few much better options.
Because leisurely looking at it on a map is exactly the same as trying to figure out where to put it down when the engine has just quit.
Because piss poor planning of the flight gave him no back door , were you not taught to fly and plan for when not if the engine fails.
Have you ever taken off from Rand Airport in a real aeroplane?
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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by spatz » Wed May 18, 2022 5:48 pm

TikkaT3 wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 3:30 pm
spatz wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 1:38 pm
TikkaT3 wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 11:26 am


Because leisurely looking at it on a map is exactly the same as trying to figure out where to put it down when the engine has just quit.
Because piss poor planning of the flight gave him no back door , were you not taught to fly and plan for when not if the engine fails.
Have you ever taken off from Rand Airport in a real aeroplane?
Again what point are you making ? no never flown from Rand , all the aeroplanes i fly are real ,
i am aware of the limitations of the circuit at Rand , however you chose to fly from there i guess , you therefore are the captain of your own destiny if you feel that the N17 is the route for you i would say that you have failed in your planning at that stage , but we digress this was not a take off or landing incident the guy flew his craft into a corner where he he ran out of options ELECTING TO PUT INNOCENT PEOPLE AT RISK TO SAVE HIS SKIN , HE FAILED . how would you feel if it was your wife and toddlers in that car, would you be so accommodating if the pilot survived and your family were wiped out ?
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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by TikkaT3 » Wed May 18, 2022 7:03 pm

spatz wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 5:48 pm
TikkaT3 wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 3:30 pm
spatz wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 1:38 pm


Because piss poor planning of the flight gave him no back door , were you not taught to fly and plan for when not if the engine fails.
Have you ever taken off from Rand Airport in a real aeroplane?
Again what point are you making ? no never flown from Rand , all the aeroplanes i fly are real ,
i am aware of the limitations of the circuit at Rand , however you chose to fly from there i guess , you therefore are the captain of your own destiny if you feel that the N17 is the route for you i would say that you have failed in your planning at that stage , but we digress this was not a take off or landing incident the guy flew his craft into a corner where he he ran out of options ELECTING TO PUT INNOCENT PEOPLE AT RISK TO SAVE HIS SKIN , HE FAILED . how would you feel if it was your wife and toddlers in that car, would you be so accommodating if the pilot survived and your family were wiped out ?
So anyone taking off from Rand and has an EFATO has “failed in their planning”? Maybe if you’ve been to Miami, or at least Rand, you’d understand. Anyone taking off from there, upon hearing a stutter, should immediately self-detonate instead of trying to “save their own skin”. Take a step back. The pilot died, the pax are hurt but fortunately not dead, the car occupants were taken to hospital as a precaution. I still can’t see how he saved his own skin?
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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by jimdavis » Wed May 18, 2022 10:53 pm

TikkaT3 wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 7:03 pm

So anyone taking off from Rand and has an EFATO has “failed in their planning”? Maybe if you’ve been to Miami, or at least Rand, you’d understand. Anyone taking off from there, upon hearing a stutter, should immediately self-detonate instead of trying to “save their own skin”. Take a step back. The pilot died, the pax are hurt but fortunately not dead, the car occupants were taken to hospital as a precaution. I still can’t see how he saved his own skin?
Tikka, the guy was TRYING to save his own skin by putting strangers' lives at risk. I think that decision was morally wrong, regardless of the outcome.

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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Thu May 19, 2022 4:51 am

TikkaT3 wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 7:03 pm
So anyone taking off from Rand and has an EFATO has “failed in their planning”? Maybe if you’ve been to Miami, or at least Rand, you’d understand. Anyone taking off from there, upon hearing a stutter, should immediately self-detonate instead of trying to “save their own skin”. Take a step back. The pilot died, the pax are hurt but fortunately not dead, the car occupants were taken to hospital as a precaution. I still can’t see how he saved his own skin?
Agree. Anybody who has had an engine failure at a critical phase of flight will understand that the brain shuts down and prioritises self preservation above anything else. I cannot believe we are debating this.
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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by Raffles » Thu May 19, 2022 8:36 am

I said this several times here. If you are operating out of an airport surrounded by urban sprawl, find the latest satellite images and study the area around your airport so you at least have an idea of where forced landing fields might be.
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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by jimdavis » Thu May 19, 2022 10:17 am

Airwayfreak wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 4:51 am
Agree. Anybody who has had an engine failure at a critical phase of flight will understand that the brain shuts down and prioritises self preservation above anything else. I cannot believe we are debating this.
Chill Airwayfreak. Are you saying you can't believe anyone would have a view that differs from yours?

I have had more than a dozen genuine engine failures in single engine aircraft and have always found exactly the opposite. Things slow right down and you have plenty of time to make decisions.

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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by dollar » Thu May 19, 2022 12:07 pm

Let me start off by saying that the largest thing I’ve been PIC of is a parachute 😜 I’m not a pilot.

I have however flown with lots of you guys often in the right seat after being told not to touch anything. Although I do recall on one occasion being asked to push the brakes 😜.

Guy who I flew with often used to brief me on the engine out on takeoff procedure. I eventually asked him why? It hasn’t really got anything to do with me. I’m a passenger remember- it’s not my problem.

His response made me smile. He told in no uncertain terms that it was definitely our problem and that I should follow his instructions should he need to give them. He also said that by telling me the plan he reinforced it in his own mind. I didn’t argue.

In this particular instance I suspect that “saving” the aerie may have played a part. Someone alluded to this earlier. The 180 turn back. How much of the 1200 feet was still in the bank after that? Then it was put it in the road or in the water. With 20/20 hindsight maybe not the best call. I’m not qualified to say. Had he not hit the SUV we would be commenting on a “great landing”. Unfortunate. Poor guy 😢
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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by AnAV8R » Thu May 19, 2022 12:11 pm

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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by boomsl@ng » Thu May 19, 2022 7:44 pm

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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Thu May 19, 2022 10:01 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 10:17 am

Chill Airwayfreak. Are you saying you can't believe anyone would have a view that differs from yours?
jim
No Jim, contrary to popular belief, I am quite open to listening to everybody's views. If you can convince me that your view is correct, I will gladly change my perspective, People that actually know me will attest to this. The reason things seem to slow down is because the brain shuts down to filter out all extraneous "noise" to focus on the job on hand which is to try and land the aircraft in a state conducive to being able to walk away from it. Everybody handles the same situation differently, so to judge the poor pilot for landing on the highway is really harsh.

But you should know that by now. I am surprised that we are still debating that hindsight is an exact science. That is what I was saying
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Re: Light Plane Crash Miami

Unread post by spatz » Fri May 20, 2022 12:39 am

Airwayfreak wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 10:01 pm
jimdavis wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 10:17 am

Chill Airwayfreak. Are you saying you can't believe anyone would have a view that differs from yours?
jim
No Jim, contrary to popular belief, I am quite open to listening to everybody's views. If you can convince me that your view is correct, I will gladly change my perspective, People that actually know me will attest to this. The reason things seem to slow down is because the brain shuts down to filter out all extraneous "noise" to focus on the job on hand which is to try and land the aircraft in a state conducive to being able to walk away from it. Everybody handles the same situation differently, so to judge the poor pilot for landing on the highway is really harsh.

But you should know that by now. I am surprised that we are still debating that hindsight is an exact science. That is what I was saying
Why is it hindsight , i would say its foresight we should all be using , when i fly i make sure i have between 3 and 5 options to land in my head, before i fly i will spend 30 mins watching the take offs and landings to see if there is any strange phenomena on the approaches , i will also ask pilots who have flown that day what the conditions are, i have more than once put the fully fueled and di'd aircraft back in the hanger based on the info i have received or perceived, if you are thinking along those lines then when the inevitable happens you just much better prepared for it,

I really dont know why people are defending this pilots decision,
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