Airforce Badge??

Aviation chatter - For ALL Pilots and Aviation Enthusiasts

Moderator: Moderators

runwayclear
Fuelling up
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:37 pm
Closest Airfield: FACT
Location: Cape Town
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 0

Airforce Badge??

Unread post by runwayclear » Wed May 18, 2022 4:13 pm

Can anyone help with a bit of info about this badge?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
alpha-mike-tango
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:47 pm
Closest Airfield: FASK
Location: Wrong side of Table Mountain
Has liked: 208 times
Been liked: 104 times

Re: Airforce Badge??

Unread post by alpha-mike-tango » Wed May 18, 2022 5:41 pm

This badge has been a puzzle to SAAF militaria collectors for many many years. It comes up on the various markets every now and then and continues to be a complete mystery.
Some claim that is was a badge for one of the Air Schools that trained signallers etc but this has no basis in fact. Others claim that the motto and wing indicate that it is SAAF but the SAAF does not have copyright on the motto and is in fact used by many training institutions. There is an oil lamp and the wing has hourglass in the middle, the symbolism of "Time Flies" and the lamp have no air force connection - one can google the symbolism. The figure of Mercury too has symbolic meaning in many organizations, not just the SA Corps of Signals and Interflora.
To further complicate things there is an english variant with the initials ECC and a different motto ... There is also a cloth embroidered jacket pocket badge.
I have scoured several sources for South African abbreviations in the hope of finding what VKK and ECC could mean. All without luck.
I have no reason to believe it has any air force connection and remains a curiosity.
Last edited by alpha-mike-tango on Wed May 18, 2022 5:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
While it is important to be able to laugh at oneself, it is equally important not to be armed with an overwhelming amount of material.

To the SOB who stole my anti-depressants - I hope you're happy now!
Swivel
Preflighting
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:16 pm
Closest Airfield: Fisantekraal
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 9 times

Re: Airforce Badge??

Unread post by Swivel » Wed May 18, 2022 5:45 pm

Not sure but it seems to be a religious unit badge in Afrikaans.
My two cents worth: SAAF Unit
"Verenigde K...... Kerk"?
Brian.
User avatar
alpha-mike-tango
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:47 pm
Closest Airfield: FASK
Location: Wrong side of Table Mountain
Has liked: 208 times
Been liked: 104 times

Re: Airforce Badge??

Unread post by alpha-mike-tango » Wed May 18, 2022 6:46 pm

To keep things interesting here are the two variants! The English one's motto can be translated as "under this sign you will conquer". Sadly having both English and Afrikaans abbreviations makes trying to identify it no less easier.
Many collectors have bought them under the impression they are SAAF but the general consensus is that it is likely some training or religious institution - though the lamp, winged hourglass and Mercury apparently have symbolism in Masonic traditions too ....
ECC.VKK.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
While it is important to be able to laugh at oneself, it is equally important not to be armed with an overwhelming amount of material.

To the SOB who stole my anti-depressants - I hope you're happy now!
User avatar
SlowApproach
Tree Tousand
Tree Tousand
Posts: 3003
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 11:01 pm
Closest Airfield: FAGC
Location: Arse-end of Centurion
Has liked: 11 times
Been liked: 71 times

Re: Airforce Badge??

Unread post by SlowApproach » Thu May 19, 2022 9:06 am

A long shot perhaps (because the "institutional memory" may be long gone) but these chaps could be of help as they claim to have been doing badges since 1947: http://metalart.co.za/about

It might even be the same company, based on what's on the badge's back:

buttonhole badge back.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Behind every angry woman is a man who has absolutely no idea what he did wrong.
User avatar
Glenn L
Paying Landing Fees
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:32 am
Closest Airfield: FAPE
Location: Port Elizabeth
Has liked: 45 times
Been liked: 46 times

Re: Airforce Badge??

Unread post by Glenn L » Thu May 19, 2022 12:55 pm

I cant add much light to this discussion unfortunately
but
I have seen the motto on some of my fathers Freemason regalia, but not with these symbols.

It also seems unusual to have this motto on the English badge because it does not fit the symbols on the badge.

"by this sign conquer" goes back to the Roman Emperor Constantine who claimed he was given a vision of the Cross on the night before battle and divinely commanded, 'by this sign conquer'. So it seems strange to have the motto on a badge without a Cross symbol.

Also I do remember meeting a military chaplain some years ago who had a cloth badge of similar style.
masons badge 3093.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
alpha-mike-tango
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:47 pm
Closest Airfield: FASK
Location: Wrong side of Table Mountain
Has liked: 208 times
Been liked: 104 times

Re: Airforce Badge??

Unread post by alpha-mike-tango » Thu May 19, 2022 7:13 pm

SlowApproach wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 9:06 am
A long shot perhaps (because the "institutional memory" may be long gone) but these chaps could be of help as they claim to have been doing badges since 1947: http://metalart.co.za/about

It might even be the same company, based on what's on the badge's back.
buttonhole badge back.jpg
Sadly as you correctly pointed out the "institutional memory" is long gone. We as collectors tried this route some years ago but the response was that over several decades they had made literally thousands of badges and that such records no longer existed (or words to that effect). As I recall we were referred to the State Herald in the event of it having been a registered design. I cannot recall if that route was ever followed, but suffice to say the identification if this badge remains an enigma.
While it is important to be able to laugh at oneself, it is equally important not to be armed with an overwhelming amount of material.

To the SOB who stole my anti-depressants - I hope you're happy now!
kloot piloot
Circuit re-established
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:14 pm
Closest Airfield: FABS
Location: FABS (Brits Flying Club)
Has liked: 16 times
Been liked: 17 times

Re: Airforce Badge??

Unread post by kloot piloot » Fri May 20, 2022 12:38 pm

Wild guess, assuming the ECC and VKK are English and Afrikaans respectively. ... Cricket Club / ... Krieket Klub ?
Roel Jansen
FABS - ZU-IAR
runwayclear
Fuelling up
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:37 pm
Closest Airfield: FACT
Location: Cape Town
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 0

Re: Airforce Badge??

Unread post by runwayclear » Mon May 23, 2022 9:45 pm

Thanks for all the replies - a mystery badge for sure !

Return to “General Aviation Chatter”