Estate agents / drones

Unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), commonly known as a drone and also referred to as an unpiloted aerial vehicle and a remotely piloted aircraft (RPA) by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), is an aircraft without a human pilot aboard.

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Peblehead
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Estate agents / drones

Unread post by Peblehead »

Can someone who understands the regulation regarding drone ops please advise?
Do estate agents who operate drones for using / publishing pictures for the intention to sell a property require the operation to have an Rpas license? Or the pilot does he need to be licensed by our CAA?

Just curious
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by Shepherd »

Peblehead wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:05 pm Can someone who understands the regulation regarding drone ops please advise?
Do estate agents who operate drones for using / publishing pictures for the intention to sell a property require the operation to have an Rpas license? Or the pilot does he need to be licensed by our CAA?

Just curious
As it stands they would need an ROC to fly commercial ops like that.

This category and many like it is hugely under enforced according to the regulations and thus people just do it and “make up” their own rules around their interpretation of what they read once…
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by henkhugo »

Peblehead wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:05 pm Can someone who understands the regulation regarding drone ops please advise?
Do estate agents who operate drones for using / publishing pictures for the intention to sell a property require the operation to have an Rpas license? Or the pilot does he need to be licensed by our CAA?

Just curious
Yes
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by Peblehead »

Thanks guys for the response.
I approached three estate agents who are all trying to sell a property next door and use drones to get a shot or two, suggesting tongue in cheek they are depriving me of privacy with the thing ( not as if I’m doing anything illegal) they all said they have no clue about a licence or other.
If the CAA inspectors who are quick to pounce on us for any transgression would like issue fines they need look no further than estate agents who publish aerial photographs …. I suppose us who own an aircraft and need a pilots licence are just easier targets
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by henkhugo »

Peblehead wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:32 pm Thanks guys for the response.
I approached three estate agents who are all trying to sell a property next door and use drones to get a shot or two, suggesting tongue in cheek they are depriving me of privacy with the thing ( not as if I’m doing anything illegal) they all said they have no clue about a licence or other.
If the CAA inspectors who are quick to pounce on us for any transgression would like issue fines they need look no further than estate agents who publish aerial photographs …. I suppose us who own an aircraft and need a pilots licence are just easier targets
The lack of enforcement of the drone regulations is a major issue. In Cape Town the City Law Enforcement Marine unit have started to take on the guys illegally using drones to fish. https://avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=249321 - the CAA didn't even bother to respond to the DFFEs requests for for assistance in the court case.
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by Shepherd »

Its exactly as Henk says...

The issue with the regulations and the enforcement is this...

The CAA handed this regulation enforcement over to SAPS, they have the charge codes and all that jazz... However its more rare to find a SAPS member that knows this or even knows the charge codes exist...

Additionally PRISA was also was given rope to help regulate things within the private security spaces... But surprise surprise.... No one knows what's plotting there either and LOADS of private security companies advertise using drones and sell a service using drones but doesnt even have a licensed pilot let alone all the ASL/ROC requirements...

We work very closely with local ATNS, both as FALE and FAVG.... In the early days we would get random calls at all sort of hours from ATNS asking us if we are operating at XYZ locations because they getting reports of a drone flying (they eventually realised we had an LOP with them and we would ALWAYS make contact telephonically with ATNS prior to any ops commencing....)

However the only thing they can do afterwards is to call SAPS and hope they go out.... But as you would guess 99% of the time they get told by SAPS... "What do you want us to do about it...?!?"

We have reported fishing drones from the beach abeam the threshold of 23 at FAVG... as recent as last month.... Tower was thankful for the info but they couldn't get SAPS to go there and do the legal thing....

The only consolation I have about the situation is this... All these agents and illegal ops that are happening LOVE to publish their work... Once its in the public domain its tickets for them, they have published work and cant argue that fact away anymore... So... ONE day when someone switched on enters CAA or the CAA wakes up and wants to get involved then they will have an easy job of finding the perpetrators...
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by Turbonator »

I'm an RC heli pilot, and as far as I know I'm not governed in the same manner as a drone pilot. SAAMA license required to fly though, but there is also lots of politics in the background in this regard.

So if a argue that I'm taking footage with a rotating wing RC aircraft, not classified as a drone, will I also face possible fines enforced by the CAA?

Footnote: Nowadays RC helis also has GPS and telemetry capabilities similar to drones.
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by heisan »

Turbonator wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:00 pm I'm an RC heli pilot, and as far as I know I'm not governed in the same manner as a drone pilot. SAAMA license required to fly though, but there is also lots of politics in the background in this regard.

So if a argue that I'm taking footage with a rotating wing RC aircraft, not classified as a drone, will I also face possible fines enforced by the CAA?

Footnote: Nowadays RC helis also has GPS and telemetry capabilities similar to drones.
The difference between a 'drone' and a 'model aircraft' is not in the technical specifications, but in the use:
“model aircraft” means a heavier-than-air aircraft of limited dimensions, with or without a propulsion device, unable to carry a human being, to be used for competition, sport, or recreational purposes;
So the moment you use that RC helicopter for anything other than 'competition, sport, or recreational purposes', it becomes a drone (RPAS) in the regulations.
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by snoopy »

henkhugo wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:04 am
Peblehead wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:32 pm Thanks guys for the response.
I approached three estate agents who are all trying to sell a property next door and use drones to get a shot or two, suggesting tongue in cheek they are depriving me of privacy with the thing ( not as if I’m doing anything illegal) they all said they have no clue about a license or other.
If the CAA inspectors who are quick to pounce on us for any transgression would like issue fines they need look no further than estate agents who publish aerial photographs …. I suppose us who own an aircraft and need a pilots licence are just easier targets
The lack of enforcement of the drone regulations is a major issue. In Cape Town the City Law Enforcement Marine unit have started to take on the guys illegally using drones to fish. https://avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=249321 - the CAA didn't even bother to respond to the DFFEs requests for for assistance in the court case.
Report it to SAPS and CAA if you come across it...there is provision for that. Its illegal.

The illegal flying of drones and any other RC vehicle capable of aerial photography by estate agents using drones in residential areas is a huge problem all over SA. In our area there are very few licensed operators that are allowed to do this kind of work legally. The estate agents and developers selling land and property just play ignorant of regulations - because it will cost them money if they do it legally. And no doubt there are rogue RPAS flyers out there doing this for estate agents for a couple of bucks without the proper compliance as well.

I guess one first needs an accident between a heli and a drone in SA , or a LSA or other light aircraft and a drone , before people start taking regulation seriously in terms of small camera drones over built up areas.

CAA is not asking developers to declare how they got their oblique areal photos of developments etc (just go take a look at estate agent property listings online in SA) ... so no pro active policing happening yet.
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by skytrooper »

so no pro active policing happening yet.
And probably no policing will ever happen.
They know their own regulations is stupidly over regulated and licensing stupidly expensive and because of that illegal rpas flying cannot be stopped whatsoever no matter what they try and do.

People will refuse to be extorted into paying fees they dont have and cannot afford to fly their drones privately or commercially thats reality.

The unfortunate reality is that Majority rpas pilots/operators suckered (a continuing and ongoing viscious bottomless cycle) into the scheme are Unemployed or Scraping for Crumbs.

Exactly how it was envisioned before finalizing the regs ;) (the plan worked just dandy for almost a decade now) Only a few percent of the monopoly market are making real money.

As well as the powers that be are not interested in creating an active squad to crack down on illegal operators because it will cost them too much money that they could have pocketed for themselves.

They know their slice of the pie is already beyond overly avaricious

After all its all about more profit to the "people" not furthering the industry and poor unemployed pilots / operators...if this is all BS prove me wrong ;)
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by Shepherd »

And what is it that we think the Drone Council of South Africa are doing about this?!?!?

Or how about The Commercial Unmanned Aircraft Association of Southern Africa....Nope... not a thing.

Oh and the CAA?!?!? Nope, they "postponed" (for the I dont know how many-th time) their "DCA Industry Roadshow" in a few provinces already, it was supposed to take place in KZN tomorrow...

So I guess no engagement there either....

But having said all of this, I sleep better at night knowing we have followed the process and continue to "check the boxes..."

By enlarge this just seems to be part of the process in the aviation industry.
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by skytrooper »

They all have a share in the pie, its easier to be lazy and carefree and consciousless not caring to rip off people that worked hard to pay for licensing not receiving a dime in return, only more bills for more ratings, just watch the $$ fall into their lap without doing much and without consideration to others. So the gaslighting show will continue.

The only way to sleep well is to go overseas and work with real people wanting real improvement and real results.
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by Marno »

skytrooper wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:34 am
so no pro active policing happening yet.
And probably no policing will ever happen.
They know their own regulations is stupidly over regulated and licensing stupidly expensive and because of that illegal rpas flying cannot be stopped whatsoever no matter what they try and do.

People will refuse to be extorted into paying fees they dont have and cannot afford to fly their drones privately or commercially thats reality.

The unfortunate reality is that Majority rpas pilots/operators suckered (a continuing and ongoing viscious bottomless cycle) into the scheme are Unemployed or Scraping for Crumbs.

Exactly how it was envisioned before finalizing the regs ;) (the plan worked just dandy for almost a decade now) Only a few percent of the monopoly market are making real money.

As well as the powers that be are not interested in creating an active squad to crack down on illegal operators because it will cost them too much money that they could have pocketed for themselves.

They know their slice of the pie is already beyond overly avaricious

After all its all about more profit to the "people" not furthering the industry and poor unemployed pilots / operators...if this is all BS prove me wrong ;)
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by BGRO8 »

THE C A A IS THE WORST!!!

DONT BOTHER REPORTING IT TO ANYONE! I HAVE A REGISTERED PLATFORM OPERATING COMMERCIALLY LARGE SCALE AND LEFT SOME SAFTY ISSUES IN THE SYSTEM TO REPORT WHEN I GET DONE IN BY THESE BIG COMPANIES. I PERSONALLY WORKED WITH THE HEAD OF INVESTIGATIONS AT THE CAA WHILE THEY WHERE INVESTIGATING THE COMPANY AND I REPORTED EVERY CONCERN THEIR IS WITH ALL PLATFORMS IN THE FIELD AND THERE WHERE MANY.
THEY HAVE AN ABSOLUTE DISREGARD FOR SAFETY AND ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS MAKING MONEY. THE BIGGER THE COMPANY THE BIGGER THE JOKE.

THE DRONE INDUSTRY IS A CLOWN SHOW. SERVICE PROVIDERS AND REGULATING BODIES/AUTHORITIES. END OF STORY.

IF YOU ARE HERE FOR A QUICK BUCK WHILST ENDANGERING OTHER PEOPLES LIVES YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT PLACE FLYING A DRONE FOR MONEY. MIGHT I ALSO SUGGEST HUMAN TRAFFICING, ABOLONE PAOCHING AND RHINO POACHING.
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Re: Estate agents / drones

Unread post by Marno »

BGRO8 wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 7:08 am
IF YOU ARE HERE FOR A QUICK BUCK WHILST ENDANGERING OTHER PEOPLES LIVES YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT PLACE FLYING A DRONE FOR MONEY. MIGHT I ALSO SUGGEST HUMAN TRAFFICING, ABOLONE PAOCHING AND RHINO POACHING.
Who knows where corruption and greed will strike next !

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