SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

[Joker11]

SA is being hit twice as hard as the rest of the world. Lots of folk leaving SA seeking better long term futures, AND the industry isn't what it used to be. Its a heck of a hard job, irregular hours, constant pressure to pass medicals/OPCs/exams etc, and very average pay. There are a lot better jobs that will give you a more stable lifestyle, better paycheck, and the ability to have school holidays off. Air travel is cheaper and more accessible than ever, and ticket prices reflect that... here in Europe everyone wants August off to go on holiday and sip cocktails on the beach. The problem is no one wants to load the bags, man the Xray machines, fly the planes, pour the cocktails, etc.

I went into aviation when I left high school. I used to work for a big airline in their ground operations department and was made redundent in 2020 (just before COVID hit the aviation industry). Through 2020 I tried to get a job in aviation to no avail.

In 2021 I found a job in logistics.I now work regular hours, get my weekends and days off, pay is pretty good and I also get other benefits. Why would I want to go back into aviation now. And everyone I spoke to that left aviation during COVID tells me the same. They moved on. Found better jobs and are now out of the game.

Do i miss aviation? Hell yeah. Do I want back currently? Hell no!

[flightline212]

The more perspective we can get the better so thanks very much to everyone for their comments, let’s keep it going! I believe economic uncertainty and the consequences of the 2024 election are substantial drivers when it comes to so many of our 2000-10000hr pilots leaving the country! Young family’s etc etc! Makes sense as the cost of living is immense these days!

[Fransw]

Good for them if our guys are looking for better opportunities!

Asking out of interest( just a weekend kamikaze)

Are there many/good opportunities in India?

[propstrap]

Good for them if our guys are looking for better opportunities!

Asking out of interest( just a weekend kamikaze)

Are there many/good opportunities in India?

My experience (from friends not firsthand) is to stay away. I almost joined a B190 gig there, I think it was NAC that took the slack, but were not paid in full. I may have it wrong, but the gist of it. There will of course be good jobs there, but do your homework. There are/were so many companies that did not pay their crews properly that you have to shake a stick real hard to point them all out, including SA companies. We can do the opposite and say which companies are great in that respect. The old Qwila adage was to pay the crew and engineers first, as they earn the income. Under duress, they persisted with that. A great model to follow and awesome company to have worked for. Sadly they closed doors in Nov '08, but only after management reached a deal with the take-over company that the crew, engineers and most of office staff would still have work. Show me a company now that would do that. (Ex Balmoral crew also lauded their company)..

[propstrap]

As an outsider, I must also point out FlySafair... a friend of mine left our then company to join as an FO, in Feb 2020. You can see where this is going. He started, did a week of soft skills and then the infamous lockdown. Throughout he was paid his basic, and monthly at least from what I understand the bosses had video conference to motivate and tell the guys to hang in there... He is now a skipper on the B737. Kudos to them.

[Joker11]

Good for them if our guys are looking for better opportunities!

Asking out of interest( just a weekend kamikaze)

Are there many/good opportunities in India?

Speaking of personal knowledge and what media reports thend to report. I believe India has enough unemployed pilots. I worked a lot of Indians that were fully trained pilots, engineers and flight dispatchers in roles that where not equivalent to their received training.

[Jackal]

Having been in a large middle eastern Airline for close to a decade & now returned home to SA. All I can say to the other guys in the Middle east is best of luck. It's an intriguing place & you meet the world there literally.

The COVID times in my particular company meant increased duty & flying hours. In fact I haven't flown more in a calendar year more than in that period. We broke all sorts of FDP rules for the EASA & FAA but alas you won't change the attitude nor the ppl. One must enjoy what there is to enjoy & stomach what must be stomached.
Having said that, the experience of flying a massive machine across far away places is just invaluable. Took a long time for me to miss flying again. They almost broke my romance with Aviation. But alas I'm enjoying the memories of it as I reflect.

3 yrs out & trying my best to never go back.

Enjoy the journey guys abroad & guys still here.

[Joker11]

Having been in a large middle eastern Airline for close to a decade & now returned home to SA. All I can say to the other guys in the Middle east is best of luck. It's an intriguing place & you meet the world there literally.

The COVID times in my particular company meant increased duty & flying hours. In fact I haven't flown more in a calendar year more than in that period. We broke all sorts of FDP rules for the EASA & FAA but alas you won't change the attitude nor the ppl. One must enjoy what there is to enjoy & stomach what must be stomached.
Having said that, the experience of flying a massive machine across far away places is just invaluable. Took a long time for me to miss flying again. They almost broke my romance with Aviation. But alas I'm enjoying the memories of it as I reflect.

3 yrs out & trying my best to never go back.

Enjoy the journey guys abroad & guys still here.

You sound like most pilots I spoke to that worked/work in the Middle East.

The reason I took redundancy was that the company I worked for also broke my romance with aviation.

The few friends I have left there are now being milked and worked to their maximum.

Thats why I don't believe in the "If you do what you love, you never work a day in your life".

Working in aviation is tough.

[Jackal]

Probably its been said before but some of the highlights I actually felt was the simple things like a regular sleeping pattern. Also just being in the same place for a period of time. This of course since leaving.

I was increasing flying with guys close to retirement that had no family, no real friends & were stuck in a kind of what next type of attitude. I didn't give the carrier the opportunity to break my romance & decided that a break would have been the best thing for me both physically & mentally.

I still know why I got into aviation & why I still love it so much. But I have resigned myself to the fact that all I have is the fond memories of some great experiences & meeting some very interesting people. I shared the deck with some truly great operators & flew the best of machines to some very very weird places.

Maybe I will be involved again in some humble form in a more rewarding role like instruction or teaching.

I'm not ungrateful for the opportunity & I realise so many would never have had such an adventure. But Ive still got a lifetime ahead of me & the experiences I have taken away have tremendously helped me in my other work not being In a flight deck.

Safe flying out there Ladies & Gents...

[evanb]

My 20 cents ... working entirely on the business/corporate side is very different.

Senior leadership are well paid and comparable to many other sectors in their own countries. However, below senior leadership, the business/corporate side is poorly paid compared to other sectors in their own countries. Airlines know that it's a fun sector to work with many passionate people. They know that these people may tolerate a lower salary in return for pursuing their passion and good travel benefits. However, it's hard work for less money and it generates rapid staff turnover. But they know that they have a near limitless supply of bright young things with very good tech and quantitative skills. At the lower levels, the skills are generic and not as airline specific. High turnover has challenges, but airlines have become adept at managing them. The middle to upper level jobs become better paid since the airlines need the managers to ensure that the bright young things are able to apply their good tech and quantitative skills to some of the unique parameters of the business.

There are global opportunities as well. Many middle to senior positions at ME3 airlines have been taken up by more experiences staff from other countries over the years. They've needed the skills, but they have not been the best paid, often recruiting in lower cost countries.

[Joker11]

My 20 cents ... working entirely on the business/corporate side is very different.

Senior leadership are well paid and comparable to many other sectors in their own countries. However, below senior leadership, the business/corporate side is poorly paid compared to other sectors in their own countries. Airlines know that it's a fun sector to work with many passionate people. They know that these people may tolerate a lower salary in return for pursuing their passion and good travel benefits. However, it's hard work for less money and it generates rapid staff turnover. But they know that they have a near limitless supply of bright young things with very good tech and quantitative skills. At the lower levels, the skills are generic and not as airline specific. High turnover has challenges, but airlines have become adept at managing them. The middle to upper level jobs become better paid since the airlines need the managers to ensure that the bright young things are able to apply their good tech and quantitative skills to some of the unique parameters of the business.

There are global opportunities as well. Many middle to senior positions at ME3 airlines have been taken up by more experiences staff from other countries over the years. They've needed the skills, but they have not been the best paid, often recruiting in lower cost countries.

Well the managers in my old company would have never made it past supervisor if the company didn't expend so rapidly and needed to fill manager positions.

When I was brought in, we were meant to change things. Just to end up being told thats how things have always be done and we needed to accept it.

[evanb]

Well the managers in my old company would have never made it past supervisor if the company didn't expend so rapidly and needed to fill manager positions.

When I was brought in, we were meant to change things. Just to end up being told thats how things have always be done and we needed to accept it.

I suspect you're in Europe where the culture is quite different. Labour laws, tenure and the like are very different.

I should have added that most of my experience is in the US. My post US work has been as a consultant rather than staff.

[Joker11]

Well the managers in my old company would have never made it past supervisor if the company didn't expend so rapidly and needed to fill manager positions.

When I was brought in, we were meant to change things. Just to end up being told thats how things have always be done and we needed to accept it.

I suspect you're in Europe where the culture is quite different. Labour laws, tenure and the like are very different.

I should have added that most of my experience is in the US. My post US work has been as a consultant rather than staff.

I was refering to my Middle East job.

I am in Europe now where I regulary tell my boss to go f himself. (Don't do it guys, it is unprofessional)

[evanb]

I was refering to my Middle East job.

I am in Europe now where I regulary tell my boss to go f himself. (Don't do it guys, it is unprofessional)

Oh boy, the ME3 love their McKinsey consultants to basically be managers

[Flugmaour]

It is true the industry is not what it used to be but then again which industry is? Ask any engineer, architect, pharmacist, GP etc? They all complain about the same thing.
Having been in the industry for the best part of the last 15 years I feel that it still enables me to live a good comfortable lifestyle. Yes, my wife needs to work as well and I can not buy all the toys I want and go on yearly skiing holidays but overall the lifestyle is still good.
I've done my time in the ME as well and can not think of a more depressing place to live. There is so much more to life than only flying and one needs to find a balance between lifestyle and work. Airline flying in SA still enables me to enjoy the finer things in life outside of work that most places in Asia and the ME can't provide.
Each individuals personal circumstance is unique and there is no right/wrong decision. I just feel the industry is not as bad as most guys make it out to be.
I can think of far worse jobs out there for much less pay than airline flying and I am truly grateful that I am fortunate enough to do this for a living.