Ground based approaches for Destination Alternate

RNAV, GNSS, GPSS. Your place to discuss all aspects pertaining to Instrument Flying.

Moderator: Moderators

Flaps Up1
Airspeed active
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:58 pm
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Ground based approaches for Destination Alternate

Unread post by Flaps Up1 »

So we are all well aware that if you only have an RNAV approach at your destination you need a ground based traditional approach at your destination alternate to dispatch legally. However with the way approaches are being withdrawn in SA - if you have traditional ground based approaches at your destination is it legal to dispatch with only RNAV approaches available at your destination alternate.

I cannot find any wording in the CATS/CARS, which simply states that an ‘instrument approach’ is required at your destination alternate.

Any thoughts?
SandPiper
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1215
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:15 pm
Location: Swakopmund
Has thanked: 155 times
Been thanked: 231 times

Re: Ground based approaches for Destination Alternate

Unread post by SandPiper »

We had the same discussion recently during a sim break.
The instructor said it is "probably" legal to use Rnav only as alternate, but to be frowned upon.

I also want to know the answer!
User avatar
Iceberg
Tree Tousand
Tree Tousand
Posts: 3543
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:09 pm
Closest Airfield: FAWB
Location: Pretoria
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 428 times

Re: Ground based approaches for Destination Alternate

Unread post by Iceberg »

The approaches that are suspended all over the place leaves me puzzled.

Wonderboom has had no approaches now for 6 months +. Margate's RNAV's are suspended, Hoedspruit has no approaches.
Yet Cemair and Airlink fly to Hoedspruit daily. Cemair flies to Margate almost every day. Will be interesting to know how they handle IMC there.

I've flown to Hoedspruit and back from Wonderboom on the previous weekend. Makes for interesting decisions.
Cancelling IFR, gapping it through the clouds to below so you can arrive VFR. Makes no sense. :roll:
The sky is not the limit....
ZS-MDK
Karl Eschberger
User avatar
sweptwing
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1050
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:57 pm
Closest Airfield: FACT
Location: South Africa
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Ground based approaches for Destination Alternate

Unread post by sweptwing »

AIC 25-4 (6) h
AIC 25-9 Appendix 4, point 8 & 9. (Page 21)
These users thanked the author sweptwing for the post:
SandPiper
“For each of them, the most important thing in living was to reach out and touch perfection in that which they most love to do, and that was to fly.” Richard Bach
Flaps Up1
Airspeed active
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:58 pm
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Ground based approaches for Destination Alternate

Unread post by Flaps Up1 »

sweptwing wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:31 pm AIC 25-4 (6) h
AIC 25-9 Appendix 4, point 8 & 9. (Page 21)
Thanks, I did read through those AIC’s before posing the question as they cover the scenario of doing an RNAV approach at your destination, my question relates to the opposite. AIC 25-4 talks about take off alternate and enroute alternate - not destination. For example.

Let’s say I’m planning to fly to FACT and expecting an ILS for 19 or 01, weather is above minima, FAGG is closed and FAPE is my alternate with wind prohibiting use of 26. Now until a day or two ago the ILS for 08 was withdrawn and the VOR approach is still suspended - the only approach on 08 available was an RNAV. Technically the AIC’s don’t really cover this scenario. Am I missing something? Can I dispatch or not?
SandPiper
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1215
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:15 pm
Location: Swakopmund
Has thanked: 155 times
Been thanked: 231 times

Re: Ground based approaches for Destination Alternate

Unread post by SandPiper »

I would say that AIC 25.9 covers your scenario.

Discussed before.

viewtopic.php?t=199855
User avatar
AnAV8R
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:10 am
Closest Airfield: FASH
Location: Somerset West
Has thanked: 420 times
Been thanked: 319 times

Re: Ground based approaches for Destination Alternate

Unread post by AnAV8R »

Time to upgrade our airports to GBAS....but who will pay for it who knows.... :roll:
7675
ATC Delay
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:24 am
Closest Airfield: FASH
Location: Stellenbosch
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Ground based approaches for Destination Alternate

Unread post by 7675 »

AnAV8R wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 10:27 am Time to upgrade our airports to GBAS....but who will pay for it who knows.... :roll:
One GBAS installation will provide GLS approaches for every IFR runway in the JNB area. Same for every other hub.
AT6, ALO3, Oryx, B200, B1900, B727, B744, A319, A330, A340, A350, A380

Return to “Instrument Flying”