Israel - State of war declared(again!)

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Trevorn
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by Trevorn »

[quote=snoopy post_id=2322669 time=1715781552 user_id=56612]
In terms of the original topic - the military objectives have always been transparent. And that is what a state of war is about. I'm pretty confident the IDF will reach its objectives, hopefully sooner than later, so that things can normalize for civilians. But even then, it will take ages to get over a war your government started with neighbouring state.

War is always tragic in that sense - and your rulers picking a war as aggressor with another belligerent always has consequence especially for those civilians who are not politically charged or radicalized. A minority in Gaza. The take-away from that? Never vote for militant fruitcakes....ever. Because doing so will cost [u]you[/u] in the end, and they wont give a sh*t about your survival.
[/quote]

I can agree with your last paragraph. I would add don't vote a far right, or far left party in. If you do you will pay in blood.

Unfortunately both have extremists in charge.

I'm not so sure the IDF will achieve its objective of eliminating Hamas. If the US could not eliminate the Taliban and ISIS, the IDF will not eliminate Hamas for the same reason. But lets agree to disagree on that point.
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by snoopy »

The most survivable societies are moderate ones, and yes militant extremists on both sides of a spectrum are risks one should try to avoid - to do so you have to actively ensure your society doesn't get hijacked by militant radicals. Once it does - its like a wild fire...or a runaway train, which is very hard to stop. So prevention is a far better strategy than trying to cure it.

Being moderate doesn't equate to being without convictions. While militant extremist patterns of thinking usually represent a major, aggressive form of fanaticism. :idea:

The US is not the IDF. And I think you will find that the IDF will accomplish its mission on the long term, to ensure the same never happens to its citizens again - overtly and covertly. There are shorter term objectives they are close to concluding in Gaza.
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by Trevorn »

Is this how a "professional " defence force operates?

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/midd ... index.html

Considering how pro Israel CNN is there must be quite a large content of truth in this report.
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by Trevorn »

[quote=propstrap post_id=2322624 time=1715759595 user_id=6617]
The UN revised sharply downward (by more than a third) the Hamas claims of women and children killed in the conflict which Hamas started 7 Oct 2023. While any deaths are very much regrettable, it would be good if the world placed more pressure on Hamas, who initiated the war and refuse to end it, to release the hostages and allow hostilities to end. It is not a brain teaser.

https://themedialine.org/mideast-daily- ... %20Journal.

Also, the Biden administration announced weapons aid to Israel of 1 billion USD. The aid package has to pass several stages, but is a significant indication that the US views Hamas as the scourge.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/14/poli ... index.html
[/quote]
Apparently the UN revising its death toll is fake news according to France 24

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sR3MO20Tb ... 9sbA%3D%3D
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by NineThreeKilo »

Trevorn wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 6:27 pm
propstrap wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 9:53 am The UN revised sharply downward (by more than a third) the Hamas claims of women and children killed in the conflict which Hamas started 7 Oct 2023. While any deaths are very much regrettable, it would be good if the world placed more pressure on Hamas, who initiated the war and refuse to end it, to release the hostages and allow hostilities to end. It is not a brain teaser.

https://themedialine.org/mideast-daily- ... %20Journal.

Also, the Biden administration announced weapons aid to Israel of 1 billion USD. The aid package has to pass several stages, but is a significant indication that the US views Hamas as the scourge.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/14/poli ... index.html
Apparently the UN revising its death toll is fake news according to France 24


25% inflation and the potato sends money we don’t have to fuel this clusterfuk, with ZERO ROI for mainstreet America

Frankly if we stopped propping up Isreal they’d be probably become more interested in making peace with their neighbors

If they can’t exist organically maybe it just wasn’t ment to be
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by Trevorn »

[quote=NineThreeKilo post_id=2322692 time=1715790748 user_id=31456]
[quote=Trevorn post_id=2322689 time=1715790451 user_id=29352]
[quote=propstrap post_id=2322624 time=1715759595 user_id=6617]
The UN revised sharply downward (by more than a third) the Hamas claims of women and children killed in the conflict which Hamas started 7 Oct 2023. While any deaths are very much regrettable, it would be good if the world placed more pressure on Hamas, who initiated the war and refuse to end it, to release the hostages and allow hostilities to end. It is not a brain teaser.

https://themedialine.org/mideast-daily- ... %20Journal.

Also, the Biden administration announced weapons aid to Israel of 1 billion USD. The aid package has to pass several stages, but is a significant indication that the US views Hamas as the scourge.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/14/poli ... index.html
[/quote]
Apparently the UN revising its death toll is fake news according to France 24

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sR3MO20Tb ... 9sbA%3D%3D
[/quote]


25% inflation and the potato sends money we don’t have to fuel this clusterfuk, with ZERO ROI for mainstreet America

Frankly if we stopped propping up Isreal they’d be probably become more interested in making peace with their neighbors

If they can’t exist organically maybe it just wasn’t ment to be
[/quote]
That is so true.
If it were a equal playing field, this probably would have ended decades ago.
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by NineThreeKilo »

Trevorn wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 6:46 pm That is so true.
If it were a equal playing field, this probably would have ended decades ago.
No such thing in the world of nature or man

Honestly I get why we made Isreal, but putting it there might have been romantic but it was foolish, would be cheaper and better to just bring them all to NYC
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by snoopy »

FYI Trevorn about your perception of plausibility of genocide being committed by Israel and what ICJ actually said.
If that is so, why did the ICJ say there is a plausible case that Israel is committing genocide?
ICJ “didn't decide claim of genocide was plausible” nor “that there's a plausible case of genocide”


:idea:

So lets just park that wrong perception once and for all.

Hamas can end this war today, (including the suffering of Israeli civilians and Gazan civilians) surrender and return the hostages at any time - but they dont want to. And as has been proven so many times they don't give a rats ass about the civilians in Gaza. They care only about their own survival and warped ideologies.

You should do a study of Sinwar's past and how he was involved in the "human cleansing" of Gaza to get rid of the "unclean" in his perception. These are fanatical militant fruitcakes. You cannot separate them from those who support them and voted for them. Apply your mind to that.

On Tuesday the interaction of UNRWA and Hamas in Gaza was proven all over again by IDF intelligence with drone evidence (its on their official X feed posted at 8:44PM · May 14, 2024).

Given this intelligence, yet again, makes UNRWA itself a legit military target in terms of LOAC. It really would be best to kick UNRWA out of Gaza immediately (the UN can order them out -but they are in a legal conundrum) , and let other uncaptured humanitarian aid organizations take over their work.

The present head of the UN and the chief of UNRWA should be charged in their personal capacity in the ICC for what has been exposed about the UN and UNRWA and these two UN employees not doing anything about that. They must have known about this for years.

There have been 12 rocket alerts in Israel so far today. Yesterday, there were 27 rocket alerts, and a total of 110 in the past week.
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by Theuns v V »

Hang on....I was under the impression that the US was slowly turning its back on israel and stopping export of certain weapons and that the world was starting to isolate israel like SA was , now I hear they have a massive arms deal aid to israel - hmmm something is not computing #-o
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by snoopy »

US is being selective on what weapons they holding back on , but the supply of weapons is going ahead.

Keep in mind that many weapons manufactured in the US, is manufactured under license of Israeli companies. Weapons the US also need. Rafael USA's parent company is an Israeli company (Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd of Israel) that designed Iron Dome, Rafael USA is merely a US subsidiary manufacturing under license in the USA. It makes a lot of other weapon and defensive systems the US and the rest of the world rely on also.

Israel can withdraw the US subsidiary's license to manufacture anything in the US as well. As its their license. Israel can shut down Rafael USA and all its subsidiaries (4 other US based defense companies) at any time. And that will affect many NATO forces, and the defensive capability of Europe.

Stumble step can't hold Israel to ransom, like many think. There will be huge political whiplash against US politicians if Israel shuts those companies down in the USA and withdraws their licenses. And it will cripple the US military and future support for their own weapons systems in use that rely on Israeli support and supply.
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by apollo11 »

Theuns v V wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 11:43 am Hang on....I was under the impression that the US was slowly turning its back on israel and stopping export of certain weapons and that the world was starting to isolate israel like SA was , now I hear they have a massive arms deal aid to israel - hmmm something is not computing #-o
My thoughts too, I think to my mind there is a showdown coming in the ME with Iran, sooner or later, and without a strong Israel the US will be at a disadvantage not having a good ally as in Israel in the ME, of course all the other business political stuff interwoven as Snoopy explains also complicates the issue.
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by B.hawker »

Don't forget, the people who bought the land from the British Government to establish Israel as we know it today are the same people who lobby on the Hill and are deeply entrenched in Washington - i.e. the puppet masters, the money boys.....

Israel will prevail - it's a guarantee......if Epstein was around, he'd tell you exactly how it works.....
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by snoopy »

Israel supplies US, Canada, Europe, the Asia-Pacific region, the Middle East, as well as countries in Latin America and Africa weapon systems. The IP of which all belongs to Israel. So politicians need to walk on eggs...or Israel can pull the plug on all of them and their defensive capabilities. And that, will tank the political careers of many in all of those countries.

Even the SANDFs R4's and R5's , and SAPS R5's, are Israeli IP. And that's just the tip of an iceberg. Some of us older toppies will still remember the initial black ones with the Hebrew lettering on it.
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by B.hawker »

I find this really interesting - I have referred to this page on numerous occasions in the past where it explains clearly how the Rothschild family acquired land from the British for the establishment of a home state for the Jews in Palestine (Modern day Israel) The Rothschilds even noting this move as being their proudest achievement......

That text has changed (over the last few months) to the existing text which very much pivots and puts it squarely on the British Government.....It is interesting to see first hand how history gets rewritten......in real time :shock:

This is the page:

https://www.rothschildarchive.org/famil ... eclaration
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Re: Israel - State of war declared(again!)

Unread post by Theuns v V »

snoopy wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 11:51 am US is being selective on what weapons they holding back on , but the supply of weapons is going ahead.

Keep in mind that many weapons manufactured in the US, is manufactured under license of Israeli companies. Weapons the US also need. Rafael USA's parent company is an Israeli company (Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd of Israel) that designed Iron Dome, Rafael USA is merely a US subsidiary manufacturing under license in the USA. It makes a lot of other weapon and defensive systems the US and the rest of the world rely on also.

Israel can withdraw the US subsidiary's license to manufacture anything in the US as well. As its their license. Israel can shut down Rafael USA and all its subsidiaries (4 other US based defense companies) at any time. And that will affect many NATO forces, and the defensive capability of Europe.

Stumble step can't hold Israel to ransom, like many think. There will be huge political whiplash against US politicians if Israel shuts those companies down in the USA and withdraws their licenses. And it will cripple the US military and future support for their own weapons systems in use that rely on Israeli support and supply.
I know Snoop. What I was trying to say is that the statement has been made on multiple times on this thread that "the US is turning its back on Israel" and the likes but the us is ,as you say, stopping shipment of especially large munitions like the 2000Lb GBU and other stuff that really is not needed so badly by israel and their not shipping it will have basically no effect on the war, so NO they are not cutting isreal off. It is election time in the US soon and they have to try "play" all sides. They want to show the libs they are holding the genocidal blood thirsty idf back and on the other hand want to show their support for israel to the conservatives.

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