Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

What your instructor never taught you. Continuing your education and learning from others. Flight safety topics and accident/incident discussions.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
heisan
Seven Thousand
Seven Thousand
Posts: 7715
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:45 pm
Closest Airfield: Rhino Park
Location: Pretoria
Has thanked: 61 times
Been thanked: 1055 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by heisan »

Thermalator wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:24 pmg....then Boeing decided to break that tradition/philosphy with MCAS & screwed the pooch bigtime.
Automated trim/stability augmentation has been part of the computer system since the 737 Classic, and has always had full manual reversion. MCAS was just another trigger algorithm for the same basic software and hardware, and all the manual reversion systems were still in place.

From a pilots point of view, the only difference was that a failure of the other automated trim systems would result in continuous runaway trim, while some MCAS failure modes would result in an intermittent runaway trim.

(Oops - one other functional change - MCAS bypasses the column cutout - which is quite important from a pilots point of view, as in some existing trim runaway situation, any significant column movement would stop the trim too.)
Justin Schoeman

ZU-FSR (Raven)
User avatar
jimdavis
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 19518
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:46 am
Closest Airfield: George FAGG
Location: Hoekwil, near Wilderness, near George, Western Cape
Has thanked: 2766 times
Been thanked: 4308 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by jimdavis »

From Avweb:

Boeing believes it could resume deliveries of its grounded 737 MAX model as early as December, according to a progress report released by the company on Monday. The report also outlined five key milestones the company needs to reach with the FAA before the aircraft returns to service in the U.S. The first, an FAA eCab simulator certification session, was completed last week. Boeing emphasized that it is still targeting the final quarter of 2019 for certification of the aircraft’s updated flight control software.

“Based on this schedule, it is possible that the resumption of MAX deliveries to airline customers could begin in December, after certification, when the FAA issues an Airworthiness Directive rescinding the grounding order,” Boeing said. “In parallel, we are working towards final validation of the updated training requirements, which must occur before the MAX returns to commercial service, and which we now expect to begin in January.”

The milestones still to be accomplished include a “multi-day simulator session with airline pilots to assess human factors and crew workload,” an FAA certification flight test, submission of the “final certification deliverables and artifacts” to the FAA and a simulator training evaluation by the Joint Operational Evaluation Board (JOEB). Last week, both Southwest and American Airlines pushed the expected return to service dates for their MAXs to March 2020. The MAX was grounded in March 2019 after the fatal crashes of Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302.
www.jimdavis.co.za for flying text books, and true flying stories.
User avatar
tansg
Airborne from Unmanned field
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:29 pm
Closest Airfield: OMAA
Has thanked: 162 times
Been thanked: 192 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by tansg »

Seems like their customers are not as confident as they are.

From Flight Global
American pushes 737 Max service re-entry to March

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ch-462111/

From AeroTime
American and Southwest postpone Boeing 737 MAX return to service

https://www.aerotime.aero/clement.charp ... to-service
Romeo E.T.
Niner Tousand
Niner Tousand
Posts: 9199
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:49 pm
Closest Airfield: FAJS
Location: JHB INTL/Kpt Park/Rand Apt
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 285 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Romeo E.T. »

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 9216942081
Flightradar24
@flightradar24
Boeing’s #737MAX test aircraft is active again today near Moses Lake. fr24.com/BOE001/22d7f0fd

Image
sometimes we suffer a bit from C.R.A.F.T. sickness..Can't Remember A F@#%ing Thing

https://www.facebook.com/ralf.t.schulz
User avatar
ddevos
Tree Tousand
Tree Tousand
Posts: 3883
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:27 pm
Closest Airfield: FAVV
Location: Vanderbijlpark
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 387 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by ddevos »

From the photos on Airliners.net it seems every newly completed 737 MAX still undergoes its usual test flight, does that mean the grounding doesn't apply to these test flights?
Dirk de Vos

If you don't gear up your brain before takeoff, you'll probably gear up your airplane on landing.
biffvj
Argument with Heli Pilot.
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:29 pm
Closest Airfield: Polokwane Civil
Location: Polokwane
Has thanked: 91 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by biffvj »

By 22 October Boeing had flown over 800 test flights sorting out the glitches. Only commercial flights grounded.
User avatar
Ugly Duckling
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 10527
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:24 pm
Closest Airfield: Brakpan Benoni FABB
Location: Boksburg
Has thanked: 1926 times
Been thanked: 2053 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Ugly Duckling »

737Max return to service Feb/March 2020
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... -schedule/
Paul Sabatier
Long time Cygnet builder
The object is to fly, it does not matter what the object is!
User avatar
Imhotep
Engine full power confirmed
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:16 am
Closest Airfield: Robertson
Location: Montagu, Western Cape
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Imhotep »

User avatar
Ugly Duckling
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 10527
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:24 pm
Closest Airfield: Brakpan Benoni FABB
Location: Boksburg
Has thanked: 1926 times
Been thanked: 2053 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Ugly Duckling »

A comprehensive analysis =D>
Paul Sabatier
Long time Cygnet builder
The object is to fly, it does not matter what the object is!
User avatar
Imhotep
Engine full power confirmed
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:16 am
Closest Airfield: Robertson
Location: Montagu, Western Cape
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Imhotep »

An excellent news report that make sense of the accident.
eddy
Airspeed active
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:54 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by eddy »

I see it is reported that Boeing has fired Dennis Muilenburg.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50893490

"The board of directors decided that a change in leadership was necessary to restore confidence in the company moving forward as it works to repair relationships with regulators, customers, and all other stakeholders," Boeing's statement said.
User avatar
heisan
Seven Thousand
Seven Thousand
Posts: 7715
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:45 pm
Closest Airfield: Rhino Park
Location: Pretoria
Has thanked: 61 times
Been thanked: 1055 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by heisan »

Preliminary report is out.

Not much new, but some clear details on various aspects of the accident:

http://www.aib.gov.et/wp-content/upload ... 202020.pdf
These users thanked the author heisan for the post:
Chuck
Justin Schoeman

ZU-FSR (Raven)
User avatar
Ugly Duckling
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 10527
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:24 pm
Closest Airfield: Brakpan Benoni FABB
Location: Boksburg
Has thanked: 1926 times
Been thanked: 2053 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Ugly Duckling »

Stick-shaker response shows Ethiopian 737 Max crash crew stressed from outset: BEA

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/sti ... 11.article
These users thanked the author Ugly Duckling for the post:
AvantiII
Paul Sabatier
Long time Cygnet builder
The object is to fly, it does not matter what the object is!
User avatar
Patrick AL
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:34 pm
Closest Airfield: FACT
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 1371 times
Been thanked: 443 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Patrick AL »

Possible criminal charges against Boeing -arising directly out of Indonesia and Ethiopia crashes aftermath.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv2x2rxdlvdo

The US Department of Justice (DOJ) says it is considering whether to prosecute Boeing over two deadly crashes involving its 737 Max aircraft.

The aviation giant breached the terms of an agreement made in 2021 that shielded the firm from criminal charges linked to the incidents, the DOJ said.

Boeing has denied that it violated the agreement.

The crashes - one in Indonesia in 2018, and another in Ethiopia in 2019 - killed a total of 346 people.

The plane maker failed to "design, implement, and enforce a compliance and ethics program to prevent and detect violations of the US fraud laws throughout its operations," the DOJ said.

Boeing said it was looking forward to the opportunity to respond to the Justice Department and "believes it honoured the terms of that agreement".

Under the deal, Boeing paid a $2.5bn (£1.98bn) settlement, while prosecutors agreed to ask the court to drop a criminal charge after a period of three years.

The DOJ said Boeing has until 13 June to respond to the allegations and that what it said would be taken into consideration as it decides what to do next.

Relatives of the victims have called for criminal action against the company.

“This is a positive first step, and for the families, a long time coming. But we need to see further action from DOJ to hold Boeing accountable", a lawyer for victims' families Paul G Cassell said in a statement.

Boeing has continued to face intense scrutiny over the safety of its aircraft after an unused door came off a new 737 Max shortly after take-off in January, leaving a gaping hole in the side of the plane.
:smt051
User avatar
Old, Fat and Hairy
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:27 pm
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Old, Fat and Hairy »

Ugly Duckling wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:27 am Stick-shaker response shows Ethiopian 737 Max crash crew stressed from outset: BEA

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/sti ... 11.article
Good call. Charge the manufacturer for crews' actions in reengaging AP and poor drills until it killed them.
These users thanked the author Old, Fat and Hairy for the post (total 2):
WhirlyThermalator
I'd like my obituary to read "Savior of the world", but I'd settle for "Mauled to death drawing a penis on the forehead of a sleeping lion."

Return to “Academy & Flight Safety”