qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

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evanb
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by evanb »

Patrick AL wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 12:22 pm evanb -I have no gripe with you personally 8)

-I ....Googled :twisted: ... your website, and scanned through a few of the articles you have published

-You clearly have a deep understanding of the intricacies of the Business of aviation from all perspectives -specifically the Australian industry, and I will not argue your depth of understanding and insight

-as for the core issue here :

It is very simply about a mega-corporation, with huge power and leverage in the industry, manipulating the market to achieve some sort of undue financial/marketing benefit by actively duping many thousands of its customers - through intent, or through entirely unreasonable/unacceptable 'oversight or omission'.

End of story.

Why they actively did / negligently allowed this?

I actually suspect ( broadly informed by some of your own articles) that Qantas -after the whole C'vid19 flustercluck -possibly found themselves in a position to bolster their recovery by deceptively using customer funds as a short-term interest-free finance pool -(possibly to be able to bolster their Aus-US capacity which seems to be flagging).

-but I may be wrong as to the ultimate reason...

-yet even if it is something as simple as the 'the website update team got lost' -it is unethical and inexcusable for an organisation of the scale of Qantas to even suggest that as valid reason -they are culpable in that, they knew it, and they settled.

Hoping that the consumers find fair recompense, and that the Qantas don't do that again! :twisted: :lol:

Good luck with your website, evanb -I expect it will prove very useful to aviation Business in your market. 8)
I'm not sure Qantas is a mega corporation. By global standards it's a niche airline at the end of the line of global networks in a highly liberalised sector. Not an easy task surviving, nevermind thriving as an airline in Australia. The market is exceptionally liberalised. It has a single market with New Zealand and allows foreign ownership of domestic carriers (bizarrely with the exception of Qantas). Any number of foreign carriers can come and open shop - several have. Singapore Airlines did with Tiger and failed. Virgin has struggled in various forms. It has an exceptionally liberal foreign access as well, free access for Singapore, India, the US, China, and liberal access to Emirates, Etihad, Turkish and the like. It faces significant competition from foreign carriers from low wage and often subsidised operations. Nevertheless, they are a good operator.

Airlines, just like any other business should be held to account. I've written plenty (as you probably saw on my blog) which criticises regulatory decisions, including those that have benefited Qantas (unfairly I though). There is a system in Australia to hold businesses to account, which is more than can be said for many other countries. However, people deserve to be treated fairly in that system and that includes businesses. If businesses are not treated fairly then the allocation of capital becomes inefficient and politicians exploit this for corruption. South Africa is a prime example of how inefficient and corrupt everything becomes when people are not treated fairly. China, Russia, and many other kleptocracies.

But fairness also means that when holding people and businesses to account that it requires evidence to support that accountability. It doesn't matter if someone did something wrong, individual liberties put the burden of proof on the accuser. But also intent is important. It we are only held to account for outcomes rather than intentions, then we'd all be in jail. You seem to believe that intent is irrelevant, and I do have a problem with that.

My blog is a person hobby horse. I do work in the industry and have for best part of 20 years. My job is analytics in the economic and network strategy side of airlines. We work with about 50 major global airlines. What Qantas was doing was done by nearly every single one of our clients. Most of them had no idea and not a single one has been held accountable. The paternalistic nature of the Australian system has caught them out.

My problem is not with you. It's with people who don't know what they don't know, but seem to think they know better than people who do. When they are challenged, they respond in childish ways. I don't know what you do, but I'm sure you're good at it and know the area well. When you're engaging people within the realm of your expertise, I would expect that you'd be rather insulted with people responding with "blah blah blah" ...

I also have a problem with the vitriol for something that likely had little to no impact on you.
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by evanb »

And, for what its worth, I'm not Australian, but rather South African. I live in Australia through some accidents of partners and family. My work is global. Less than 1% of our billing is in Australia, hence the blog being a hobby horse.
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by Patrick AL »

Again you resort to verbose obfuscation, all essentially just couching blatantly dishonest behaviour as ' the freedom to conduct business ruthlessly and unethically '. :roll:

-and yet more telling personal attacks :roll:

You are obviously not very secure at all in your position on the issue, and desperately need to bolster it with diversionary attacks on any and all dissenting voices. :roll:
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by Alula »

Pat your GPWS just alerted in IMC….
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by Patrick AL »

Alula wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 11:31 am Pat your GPWS just alerted in IMC….
I must be piloting a Qantas craft, then! 8) :lol:
I'm scudding out now! :mrgreen:
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by evanb »

Patrick AL wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 10:21 am Again you resort to verbose obfuscation, all essentially just couching blatantly dishonest behaviour as ' the freedom to conduct business ruthlessly and unethically '. :roll:

-and yet more telling personal attacks :roll:

You are obviously not very secure at all in your position on the issue, and desperately need to bolster it with diversionary attacks on any and all dissenting voices. :roll:
In this thread I've noted their unfair benefit from regulatory decisions. I've said that they misled consumers, that they should be held responsible. I've also said that they got off lightly. But somehow if somebody doesn't throw vitriol to back your position they are unworthy.

Yet, you go through motions of just throwing accusations. Because I've repeatedly noted that what they did was common industry practice and that (unfortunately) the evidence wasn't sufficient for stronger action you are not willing to accept the facts. You've not engaged on any of the content.

You've yet to actually point to a single thing that I've said that is false. You dump articles that support what I'm saying. Accuse me of "diversionary attacks on any and all dissenting voices". It wasn't at all about dissenting voices since what you posted literally contradicted what you were trying prove. Instead you direct the accusations at me in addition to Qantas, stating that I'm essentially giving them cover "to conduct business ruthlessly and unethically".

Somehow you expect people to respect you when all you do is throw accusation. Like when you accused me of ad hominems when your three posts prior to it were just a chain of ad hominems. Just look at your last post, nothing about content.

I'm secure in my position on the issues, thanks.
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by evanb »

Patrick AL wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 12:22 pm I actually suspect ( broadly informed by some of your own articles) that Qantas -after the whole C'vid19 flustercluck -possibly found themselves in a position to bolster their recovery by deceptively using customer funds as a short-term interest-free finance pool -(possibly to be able to bolster their Aus-US capacity which seems to be flagging).
Btw, I don't think you read the article on my website about it (you might have been alluding to it), but they were intentionally constraining their US capacity due to United flooding the market and reduced demand due to exchange rate variations and point-of-sale bias. They showed to be somewhat shrewd in doing so. Instead, they've shifted that capacity to Europe, India, Singapore, and soon to be South Africa. That said, the time period of selling tickets of the cancelled flights was May to July 2022. This significantly predates their US capacity reductions and occurred during a time when they were providing half of all trans-Pacific capacity and well above their baseline benchmark (about a third to 40%).

At the time (mid 2022), they were pretty cash flush, but that was due to having just sold a big chunk of property in Sydney. When interest rates are where they are shareholders don't like companies sitting on cash, and big cash piles are seen opening one to being a takeover target. Unless they have some very specific purpose to use that cash, it's not in the company's interest :D to sit on cash!
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by GL »

Gents - please drop the ad hominem stuff.
Credo quia absurdum
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by Whirly »

GL wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 3:38 pm Gents - please drop the ad hominem stuff.
Why? It's entertaining and enlightening. :lol:

Whirly.
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by Volo »

GL wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 3:38 pm Gents - please drop the ad hominem stuff.
.......................
I agree with Whirly - The real issues get a thorough airing this way .
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by AussieFlyBoy »

Volo wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:57 pm Pity there is a paywall there . Seems I will never no what these clowns ( by clowns I mean Quantus / the regulator and the Australian public ) did .

Thanks for your thoughts, Shakespeare.
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by Volo »

AussieFlyBoy wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 10:50 pm
Volo wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:57 pm Pity there is a paywall there . Seems I will never no what these clowns ( by clowns I mean Quantus / the regulator and the Australian public ) did .

Thanks for your thoughts, Shakespeare.
...................................................

Yes indeed I did misspell " know " but I still think they are clowns -all of them - The competition commission for acting like a judge , jury & executioner - the airline for ripping people off and the public for allowing themeselves to be ripped off.
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Re: qantas-to-be-fined-100-million

Unread post by AussieFlyBoy »

Volo wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 9:12 am
AussieFlyBoy wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 10:50 pm
Volo wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:57 pm Pity there is a paywall there . Seems I will never no what these clowns ( by clowns I mean Quantus / the regulator and the Australian public ) did .

Thanks for your thoughts, Shakespeare.
...................................................

Yes indeed I did misspell " know " but I still think they are clowns -all of them - The competition commission for acting like a judge , jury & executioner - the airline for ripping people off and the public for allowing themeselves to be ripped off.
As an expat living in Aus, give me this clown Airline and the system of government & control any day of the week over SAA and that mess of ANC corruption you call a government. Clearly the irony of your post is lost on you.

PS there is no “u” in Qantas.

Let’s leave it there, William.
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