Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by markII »

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Last edited by markII on Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by puddlejumper »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_ballistics

I will guess the 7.62 x51mm ball.

Some farmers stolen .308, lucky for the pilots he forgot to lead, aimed for the front. Designed to break up. Mushroomed on impact causing the big hole before breaking up.
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by Rooster »

Or angry chicken farmer......
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by Air Speed »

puddlejumper wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:16 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_ballistics

I will guess the 7.62 x51mm ball.

Some farmers stolen .308, lucky for the pilots he forgot to lead, aimed for the front. Designed to break up. Mushroomed on impact causing the big hole before breaking up.

I don't think so , the entry through the aluminum skin would not have deformed the round to that extent to make such a large entry hole. the copper jacket would have held.
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by liaan »

Air Speed wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:56 pm
puddlejumper wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:16 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_ballistics

I will guess the 7.62 x51mm ball.

Some farmers stolen .308, lucky for the pilots he forgot to lead, aimed for the front. Designed to break up. Mushroomed on impact causing the big hole before breaking up.

I don't think so , the entry through the aluminum skin would not have deformed the round to that extent to make such a large entry hole. the copper jacket would have held.
if not mistaken, its helicopter ... there is nice hard drive shaft running in there that will easy breakup bullet.
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by Fransw »

My guess is a Black Powder gun. No licence is required and the round slug bullet is not traceable. Some modern day black powder guns are extremely powerful. :shock: Almost like a small canon..It will rip a hole far bigger than the slug because of poor penetration and immediately break up into smaller pieces. And it can cause multiple exit wounds...

How low was the aerie?
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by JCA »

liaan wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 1:18 pm
Air Speed wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:56 pm
puddlejumper wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:16 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_ballistics

I will guess the 7.62 x51mm ball.

Some farmers stolen .308, lucky for the pilots he forgot to lead, aimed for the front. Designed to break up. Mushroomed on impact causing the big hole before breaking up.

I don't think so , the entry through the aluminum skin would not have deformed the round to that extent to make such a large entry hole. the copper jacket would have held.
if not mistaken, its helicopter ... there is nice hard drive shaft running in there that will easy breakup bullet.
The tail rotor drive shaft is a tube, thinner walled than an Addis sweeping broom. If the projectile had hit the shaft we wouldn't be looking at a complete tail boom (with holes).
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by liaan »

JCA wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:28 pm
liaan wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 1:18 pm
Air Speed wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:56 pm


I don't think so , the entry through the aluminum skin would not have deformed the round to that extent to make such a large entry hole. the copper jacket would have held.
if not mistaken, its helicopter ... there is nice hard drive shaft running in there that will easy breakup bullet.
The tail rotor drive shaft is a tube, thinner walled than an Addis sweeping broom. If the projectile had hit the shaft we wouldn't be looking at a complete tail boom (with holes).
If shaft is spinning.. you have big sweeping area absorbing the impact of the bullet.. so its not so thin anymore

the fact remains, what ever entered at bottom, split for some reason and could not all escape the otp.
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by Hop Harrigan »

Attempted murder! Lock him away forever!
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by ickk »

JCA wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:36 pm
propstrap wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 9:34 pm
JCA wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:38 pm
What would you suggest Rotor Kop? RPG7, Rifle grenade? 20mm Cannon Shell?
Agree with Rotor Kop, a RPG would have taken the tail clean off. Rifle grenade would have plonked way short. 20 mm would have either gone through or taken the tail off. I also would love to know what...
You can't determine what was fired at the plane looking at the exit holes. The entrance holes would be a lot more interesting to see. We may have to wait a bit to see those photos.
Your premise is flawed as it is based on the assumption that the individual holding the RPG, is actually capable of aiming it....

Those are bullet holes though, probably AK47 or R4
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by dollar »

Fransw wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:15 pm My guess is a Black Powder gun. No licence is required and the round slug bullet is not traceable. Some modern day black powder guns are extremely powerful. :shock: Almost like a small canon..It will rip a hole far bigger than the slug because of poor penetration and immediately break up into smaller pieces. And it can cause multiple exit wounds...

How low was the aerie?

images (32).jpg
Yip, I also tend to think so too. :-) A .58 (or larger) Minie type rifled musket! :-)
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by dollar »

liaan wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:19 pm
JCA wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:28 pm
liaan wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 1:18 pm

if not mistaken, its helicopter ... there is nice hard drive shaft running in there that will easy breakup bullet.
The tail rotor drive shaft is a tube, thinner walled than an Addis sweeping broom. If the projectile had hit the shaft we wouldn't be looking at a complete tail boom (with holes).
If shaft is spinning.. you have big sweeping area absorbing the impact of the bullet.. so its not so thin anymore

the fact remains, what ever entered at bottom, split for some reason and could not all escape the otp.
At a fairly modest velocity of maybe 900 ft/sec the instantanious impact makes the relativly slow rotation irrelevant :-)
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by dollar »

ickk wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:54 pm
JCA wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:36 pm
propstrap wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 9:34 pm

Agree with Rotor Kop, a RPG would have taken the tail clean off. Rifle grenade would have plonked way short. 20 mm would have either gone through or taken the tail off. I also would love to know what...
You can't determine what was fired at the plane looking at the exit holes. The entrance holes would be a lot more interesting to see. We may have to wait a bit to see those photos.
Your premise is flawed as it is based on the assumption that the individual holding the RPG, is actually capable of aiming it....

Those are bullet holes though, probably AK47 or R4
The AK 47 (7.62 x 39 at around 2300 f/sec) and R4 (5.56 x 45 at over 3000 fps) are considered to be high velocity rounds - the R4 much more so. The smaller 5.56 mm causes huge wounds because the bullet becomes unstable and often disintegrates on impact and behave like an expanding (soft nose) bullet on impact. Allthough they are significantly different they have one thing in common - they will go through thin aluminium like it was toilet paper ;-). The hole will be the calibre of the bullet ;-). If an R4 hits you in the right place the pathologist will have to search for the entry wound. He generally simply works his way back :-)
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by Snitch »

Id agree it looks like a 12 Gauge shotgun slug
It looks very similar to when they are used against car doors

The slug breaks into a couple large chunks, that will cause the multiple exit bulges and hole

Only other thing that makes a similar entrance hole is a 50BMG (12.7mm)
But that would go straight through the soft tail without breaking up
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Re: Aircraft Being Shot at in Uitenhage

Unread post by Snitch »

A 5,56 makes a tiny hole. Its basically a .22 on steroids'

A 308 or 303 tends to make a different shape in thin metal, similar to these
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