Israel - State of war declared(again!)

[Trevorn]

[quote=propstrap post_id=2333865 time=1722947671 user_id=6617]
[quote=snoopy post_id=2333854 time=1722944904 user_id=56612]
Which inferred "apartheid" legal opinion of the UN do you prefer. The one about Iran or the one about Israel?

[quote]A number of Iranian feminists [u]and UN experts[/u] have [color=#FF0000]also argued[/color] that the institutionalized discrimination or oppression of women [color=#FF0000]in the Islamic Republic of Iran[/color] [u]does or could amount to gender apartheid[/u].17 Jun 2024[/quote]
https://reliefweb.int/report/world/glob ... tional-law

Wait, two "apartheid" states at war with one another? Surely not...can't be...if both support apartheid - pray tell what the problem is in ideology?

But the internet says so...so which so called "apartheid state" is worse? Iran and its proxies or Israel ?

History - Egypt gave up its claim to Gaza and the Egyptian citizens living there (they didnt want the problem), so did Jordan to the West Bank. And the Jordanians living there. (they didnt want the problem)
[/quote]

India, China, Malaysia, Myanmar, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, South Africa (present), Soviet Union, Sudan, USA, Iran, and so on? All of the above are listed as having allegations of apartheid. There are also slavery in quite a number of countries, and South Africa, lauded by some on the thread is considered a hotspot for human trafficking. SA's human right record stinks, if one takes the trouble to look at it. Flaunting the sentiments of some first world countries after spending a few days there has absolutely no impact on Israel, or allegations of Israel apartheid, because mostly they are clueless and baseless assumptions.

Gaza occupation? A few years ago, Jews were forcibly removed from Gaza, by the IDF, and Gaza was turned over to a Gaza government, and yet it was called occupied. Occupied by whom? And where Gazans could go to Israel for work, shopping and medical aid but generally not allowed into Egypt. (before the attack of the Gaza government armed wing against by far mostly defenseless civilians, many of who are still hostages in cruel and deplorable conditions.) Yet that seems not to register at all. #-o Try being a Jew in some Arab countries, or even Christian, where your association can carry the death sentence.

The fact that Gaza spend most if not all of its aid in weapons of terror is telling, but then again many chose not to see. The fact that Iran and other supply Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthi's and others with weapons cannot be denied. So, take out the leaders plotting to murder scores of innocents. Palestinians often shouting "death to the jews" and even Malema chanting liberate the land from the river to the sea, clearly indicating their intent for Jewish genocide. Against that is a nation fighting for its survival, under constant attack or threat of attack since its inception.
[/quote]
Propstrap, the weakness in your argument is you confusing allegations and an ICJ advisory opinion. Allegations are just that. No assessment of facts. An ICJ advisory opinion is made after facts have been carefully considered by qualified people.

If you going to compare the two, you will always be ill informed.

[Trevorn]

You still not answering my question.
Were they acting on the instructions of the UN?

Not vetting its employees does not automatically make them guilty of being involved in the attack.

Also you say UNRWA staff are still in prison. Were they ever found guilty? or are they some of the many Palestinians in Israeli jails who have not been sentenced by a court?

If a employee of FNB uses company time and company resources to hack into ABSA's network to commit fraud, without the knowledge of his boss, does that make FNB guilty of fraud? No it does not, so how does your reasoning on UNRWA make any sense???

Still you persist in diverting.

Tell us why you are more qualified than the ICJ.

[snoopy]

Snoopy, you so funny. Early on in this thread you said it is okay for Israel to investigate their own war crimes. But take a dim view of UNRWA investigating its own.

Trevorn - or whoever you really are , not that your IP is invisible - Find, and quote me in saying that (which you assume I said) from this thread. Or retract your statement with public apology.

What I did say was:

Do you think Israel doesn't have legal experts on International law?

Furthermore

Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

complicit = involved with others in an activity that is unlawful or morally wrong.

Philippe Lazzarini, UNRWA Commissioner-General could not say without reasonable doubt that they were innocent w.r.t. them being complicit in Oct 7th attacks. Its clear as daylight from his own statement made on 5 Aug 2024.

The other questions to UNRWA could include

How complicit UNRWA was to the radicalization of Gazan children through their education programs.

How complicit UNRWA has been in supplying Hamas with ,money, infrastructure, shelter (harbouring terrorists and weapons) and vehicles.

How complicit UNRWA has been in the firing of 10s of 1000s of rockets into Isreali towns indiscriminatingly from UNRWA controlled areas for decades.

UNRWA only answered to the question it was posed about 7 Oct. It did not elaborate in its investigation as to anything else.

[bladerunner]

Snoopy.

“Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to <<moderated - language>> on the board and strut around like it won anyway.”
― Shannon L. Alder

Stop wasting your keyboard time and please keep us informed as you have so far.

[snoopy]

Latest regional

RAF A400M has switched off its transponder flying out of Cyprus, and USAF C130 flying from Malta South to nowhere. Maybe doing a air to sea resupply of a vessel at sea.

Israel : 51 red alerts today. (All Northern Israel, North of Haifa) Yesterday, there were 51 red alerts, and a total of 184 in the past week.

[snoopy]

9 more UN (UNRWA) staff members fired yesterday ,after UN Office of Oversight Services found they may have been involved in the 7 October 2023 Hamas-led attacks against Israel. This allows for them to be charged individually for war crimes in the ICC. Organizations like UNRWA and the UN cannot be taken to the ICC. The UN and UNRWA knows that.

[Trevorn]

Snoopy you said that the IDF unit 8200 will collect all the intelligence needed to investigate any war crimes and if it comes to it a judge will make a finding.
To which I replied the IDF cannot investigate their own crimes.
Do you seriously want me to believe the IDF will hand over any incriminating evidence they have collected on their own???

You seem to be dismissing the ICJ based on what UNRWA has done.
Why don't you rather focus on the integrity of the ICJ. Unless you can prove the ICJ is corrupt and captured.

[Trevorn]

[quote=snoopy post_id=2333889 time=1722954722 user_id=56612]
9 more UN (UNRWA) staff members fired yesterday ,after UN Office of Oversight Services found they may have been involved in the 7 October 2023 Hamas-led attacks against Israel. This allows for them to be charged individually for war crimes in the ICC. Organizations like UNRWA and the UN cannot be taken to the ICC. The UN and UNRWA knows that.
[/quote]
Looks like the systems are working at the UN, and people are being held accountable.
Yet you present no evidence that the ICJ is compromised, But you continually dismiss any ruling that is against Israel.

[snoopy]

Your words again.

IDF unit 8200 will collect all the intelligence needed to investigate any war crimes

In context this is what I did write on Thu Oct 19, 2023 1:05 pm

The IDF has said themselves, mistakes were made ( and yes from a military perspective there were mistakes made but not what the public think are the mistakes) - now its time to fight a terror group and win. After that, the questions can be dealt with. In the mean time Unit 8200 etc will gather all the evidence needed to answer the questions, not hear say, but intelligence, which is its mandate for every day. A judge can decide on its reputability himself later, if it comes to that.

For those of you who don't know, the staff of IDF Unit 8200 are some of the most head hunted geeks in the world, when they leave military service. Top notch at what they do best. Dont blame a nation for playing their cards close to their chest if they are at war with a terror group. Its ops normal.

You are wasting my time - I never said this

Early on in this thread you said it is okay for Israel to investigate their own war crimes.

Those are your words.

Let me rather ignore more of your drivel, again.

[propstrap]

This world is full of choices - so those who choose to align themselves with Iran (and it's associated terrorist organizations), Russia (pounding Ukrainian civil centers and people relentlessly), North Korea (despot threatening South Korea and others with nuclear war to the point of boredom), and others, well, that is defining.

Here is a picture of the Gaza strip in 2022.



Terrible hardship and barely surviving, being oppressed, if some on the forum is to be believed... but then the barbaric attack of 7 Oct. Since then many Gazans complained of losing their livelihood as they can no longer work in Israel. That beach is no more, due to Hamas backed by Iran. Many Israel kibbutz's and homes were also destroyed, as well as families, and Israeli civil centers are targeted each day.

[snoopy]

US and coalition forces suffered a rocket attack at Al Asad Airbase, in Iraq yesterday.

US navy assets now strategically placed across Middle East region.

Opinion.


Iran has actually had S300s since 2017, so this alleged supply may be to resupply the four S300 battalions they already have. Its an ground to air defense system to counter cruise missiles for example.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/russia-sa ... outs-ties/

HezB appear to be using large aircraft type drones with warheads more frequently to hit targets in Israel.

[propstrap]

Yahya Sinwar, once Israel's prisoner, 'ready to pay any price', named Hamas leader...



https://www.news24.com/news24/world/new ... r-20240806

A few highlights from the News24 article...

Take a good look at the monster that was selected to lead Hamas. And the way he sees the world, and Israel, Israel being something to be destroyed. Despite many attempts by Israel for co-existence, some just cannot see it that way. Yet the world harps on two state solution, while Hamas, its leadership and those behind it, clearly rules out any future where Jews can exist in their country Israel.

Yahya Sinwar, named leader of Hamas on Tuesday, masterminded the bloodiest attack on Jews in a single day since the Holocaust, having made no secret of his desire to strike hard at Israel, the country that imprisoned him for almost half his adult life.

In December 2022, the militant leader told a rally in Gaza that the Palestinian group Hamas would deploy a "flood" of fighters and rockets against Israel, in a speech to supporters that bore the hallmarks of crowd-pleasing hyperbole.

Michael Koubi, a former Shin Bet official who interrogated Sinwar for 180 hours in prison, said he clearly stood out for his ability to intimidate and command. Koubi once asked the militant, then aged 28 or 29, why he was not already married.

"He told me Hamas is my wife, Hamas is my child. Hamas for me is everything."

Sinwar was arrested in 1988 and sentenced to consecutive life terms accused of planning the abduction and murder of two Israeli soldiers and the murder of four Palestinians.

In jail, his hard line against collaborators continued, Israelis who dealt with him have said.

At times, "he did not have Jewish blood on his hands, he had Palestinian blood on his hands," Yuval Bitton, previously head of the Israel Prison Service's intelligence division, told Channel 12 TV in October.

Bitton, a dentist who treated Sinwar, said Israeli medics removed a tumour in Sinwar's brain in 2004. "We saved his life and this is his thanks," said Bitton, referring to Oct. 7. Bitton's nephew was killed during the attack and his body taken to Gaza by the militants.

Koubi described Sinwar as being devoted to the destruction of Israel and to killing Jews. The senior Israeli official described him as a "psychopath", adding that "I don't think the way he grasps reality is similar to more rational and pragmatic terrorists".

This excerpt from https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/202 ... as-leader/

Mr Bitton added that the Hamas leader was willing to allow huge suffering for a cause and had once in prison led 1,600 prisoners to the brink of a mass hunger strike until death if needed in protest at the treatment of two men in isolation.

"He was ready to pay any price for the principle," he said.

Sound about right for the fanatic terrorists bringing untold suffering on the Palestinians, and refusing to end it by not releasing hostages...

[Ugly Duckling]

The Middle East soon to be able the Mega Mess

[Chris71]

This world is full of choices - so those who choose to align themselves with Iran (and it's associated terrorist organizations), Russia (pounding Ukrainian civil centers and people relentlessly), North Korea (despot threatening South Korea and others with nuclear war to the point of boredom), and others, well, that is defining.

Here is a picture of the Gaza strip in 2022.



Terrible hardship and barely surviving, being oppressed, if some on the forum is to be believed... but then the barbaric attack of 7 Oct. Since then many Gazans complained of losing their livelihood as they can no longer work in Israel. That beach is no more, due to Hamas backed by Iran. Many Israel kibbutz's and homes were also destroyed, as well as families, and Israeli civil centers are targeted each day.

I have never seen such a graphic picture of hardship in my life. I can even see some people there who don't have umbrellas. That is sure to leave long-term psychological effects on them. I bet they don't even have sunscreen either!

[Ugly Duckling]

F22s arriving in the UK enroute to the Middle East