SAAF Canberras?

[Ger]

As I arrived ar RIAT this year, we were instructed to 180 and back track as a pair ( L-29s ). During the back track we were met by a most fantastic sight.
The first flight after a long rebuild of the UK's now only flying Canberra head on low running in for the break.
I don't think anybody there had a better view than us.
Some times, the unexpected is just better than anything you could dream up.

[Walter105]

As a matter of interest, are there any ex 12 sqn Canberra pilots on this forum?

[Theuns v V]

Thanx for the info, I just completed a 1/72 SAAF Can and was wondering what hepened to them. I still recall looking at the startups at Waterkloog during my loady training.....those huge puffs of smoke when the "bang caps" went off

Interesting to see the new planes being so multi capable, I guess it is all about $ in the end. Better to have a few planes that can do all things to acceptable levels, rather than having many specially dedicated aircraft that can do one thing extremely well.

T

[87Juliet]

I still recall looking at the startups at Waterkloog during my loady training....
T

When were you at 28 Sq?

[Walter105]

Thanx for the info, I just completed a 1/72 SAAF Can and was wondering what hepened to them. I still recall looking at the startups at Waterkloog during my loady training.....those huge puffs of smoke when the "bang caps" went off

Interesting to see the new planes being so multi capable, I guess it is all about $ in the end. Better to have a few planes that can do all things to acceptable levels, rather than having many specially dedicated aircraft that can do one thing extremely well.

T

Please post some pics on the static thread!

[Christo]

.....those huge puffs of smoke when the "bang caps" went off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noVUYMeXxpo

Startup at 2:23

[Theuns v V]

I worked at Moves at Waterkloof then transfered to VIP Moves at Swartkops as loady. I was a ground loady shiftboss (was not "connected" to get onto aircrew) but took many flights as an "extra" air loady, mostly at 44 sqn.

There are some pix in the model section - viewtopic.php?f=16&t=70604&start=600

Not very happy with the outcome of the Can model, but I'll live with it

T

[SandPiper]

I ferried a c310 from the US to Namibia during December 1991. I saw the whole lot parked at Abidjan on their ferry outbound.

[Theuns v V]

Would be nice to hear from any Can drivers. I think it must have been a nice aerie to pole

T

[Whirly]

Would be nice to hear from any Can drivers. I think it must have been a nice aerie to pole

T

They are all working for Disney in the USA doing voice overs for Donald Duck.......................................did you ever hear one of them on the radio?

Whirly.

[Ger]

Would be nice to hear from any Can drivers. I think it must have been a nice aerie to pole

T

Sadly a good friend of mine died will instructing on Canberras. He was doing night time single engine circuits. His student got behind the aircraft and both ejected too late. sadly both died. The Nav however ejected earlier and survived.

It was claimed that more died doing the night single approach which practicing than actually during a real emergency.

[paulw]

I still don't get it, but will just be me.

Why do we sell Mirages, Cheetas, Canberras, etc to other Airforces around the world apparently because we cannot maintain them, but they can?

Why can other Airforces maintain these aircraft? Do they have more access to spares, cheaper labour or is it just standing there and maybe get used as spares for their other operating aircraft?

Why would Gabon or Peru or who ever's requirement for operational aircraft be less than ours?

Are the machines actually flying there or also getting mothballed?

[ZS-UKU]

Way back our company was waiting to attack a base with Mirages to do our air strike. They had to be diverted for another operation and we were allocated a Buccaneer and 2 Canberra’s. The first time I saw the Buccaneer was when it was climbing out toward the sun with a huge black plume of smoke from the rockets. The Canberra’s then flew low level over us with the bomb doors open with a series of rumbling explosions following from the orange balls they had dropped. one could see why they were called hedge hoppers and as quickly as that eerie whoosh sound arrived it disappeared again. Maybe old technology but it sure did work.

[Walter105]

I still don't get it, but will just be me.

Why do we sell Mirages, Cheetas, Canberras, etc to other Airforces around the world apparently because we cannot maintain them, but they can?

Why can other Airforces maintain these aircraft? Do they have more access to spares, cheaper labour or is it just standing there and maybe get used as spares for their other operating aircraft?

Why would Gabon or Peru or who ever's requirement for operational aircraft be less than ours?

Are the machines actually flying there or also getting mothballed?

Lets take them one type at a time:

Mirages: F1AZ was retired as it was not a multirole platform (had no air to air capability), replaced by Cheetah C. The Mirage F1 could still be economically operated in terms of supply of spares and maintenance as even though it was old, many air forces still use them (including the French), but from a budgetary point of view, with shrinking defence budgets globally and especially locally there was no space in the budget to have two fighter types of which one was limited in role and scope. I suppose Gabon rather need a ground attack capability than air defence.

Cheetahs: Once again, could still be operated for a fair amount of time from a spares/maintenance point of view, but technologically not as advanced as its replacement, the Gripen and would not be as effective in a modern conflict. There is of course much debate over whether the Gripen was actually needed (a few defence reviews said it was), discussion for a different thread I suppose. Chile have pressed the Cheetahs they bought from us into service, but I believe at least one air frame will be stripped for spares.

Canberra: Spares supply was a problem due to sanctions, dwindling budgets and the cessation of the Border war meant that the type simply was not needed in service any more and not economically feasible to operate from a spares/maintenance point of view. Peru, who bought them from us, operated the Canberra since the 60s, had quite a big fleet, and could therefore most probably strip older air frames for spares. They only retired their Canberras in 2008 and still used them actively in conflict as late as 1995. (The first pic I posted of the ex-SAAF Cans in Peruvian service was taken in 2005.)

Impala MkII: Brazil bought some from us, put a few into service, and stripped the rest for spares to keep their MB326's flying.

I suppose it all depends on what the strategic needs of a country are and more importantly what the budget available is.

[paulw]

Thx Walter105. So couldn't we just strip some for spares and bought old stock from other countries?
Wouldn't that have been cheaper?

I know sometimes operating cost of older equipment is more than new for example the airline fleet on fuel burn alone.
So maybe it made sense to go the route SA did.....