Flysafair / Comair court case

[henkhugo]

Comair is doing what every other company would do in the same position. The law is the law - if FlySafair doesn't comply and the government once again didn't apply the law or applied it in drips and drabs, Comair has every right to seek clarity\remedy from the courts. On the one side they are fighting a State funded airline with zero incentive to have a profitable operation and on the other side they have competitors trying to enter the market without complying with the legislation.

[Mynard]

I'm all for supporting the new guy.

I bought tickets to fly family from Jhb to CT in December at really decent rates, the existing carriers are milking the public during this time and are fully booked during this time already.

I'd like to investigate this order of honoring ticket prices, cause that means I'll at least end up with the cheap flights still.

It is sad though that people will spend their time and money in court these days, rather than looking at winning business the old fashion way, like honest and good appealing service.

Bullies and brats.

[evanb]

Just a clarification. This is not a final decision from the court. It is just an interdict to stop it for the moment until the broader regulatory and judicial system can consider the merit of the case. It could still mean Fly Safair operating sometime soon.

[Ray W]

Just a clarification. This is not a final decision from the court. It is just an interdict to stop it for the moment until the broader regulatory and judicial system can consider the merit of the case. It could still mean Fly Safair operating sometime soon.

Although I agree with you EvanB, an airline that has taken a bash like this one has seldom recovers. I do really hope that they get going soon.

[evanb]

Although I agree with you EvanB, an airline that has taken a bash like this one has seldom recovers. I do really hope that they get going soon.

For sure, but there is also a risk to Comair which is playing out, that they have to carry Safair's passengers, and also, that they might incur the legal costs if the final judgements go against them.

[Romeo E.T.]

Although I agree with you EvanB, an airline that has taken a bash like this one has seldom recovers. I do really hope that they get going soon.

For sure, but there is also a risk to Comair which is playing out, that they have to carry Safair's passengers, and also, that they might incur the legal costs if the final judgements go against them.

Erik Venter was interviewed on 702TalkRadio last night, and he said that Comair isn't happy with the situation as they now have to accommodate passengers on fares/tickets that are not economically viable at all....but they would do the best to accommodate them on their own flights. Erik didn't sound overly enthusiastic about having to comply with the court order, and he didn't sound very enthusiastic about possibly laying on any extra flights either.

I doubt whether any additional flights will be created to accommodate the Safair passengers, as it would 1) be uneconomical to operate at those reduced rate fares 2) Comair is already running at absolute maximum capacity w.r.t. aircraft availability and crew usage (FDP etc)

thus Safair passengers will probably be loaded wherever spare seating capacity is available, and probably without any special priority.

[evanb]

thus Safair passengers will probably be loaded wherever spare seating capacity is available, and probably without any special priority.

The catch 22 for Comair now is don't comply fully with the court order and infuriate the judge who will make a final ruling. Interestingly, they didn't appeal the ruling.

[sweptwing]

Over the years many private airlines have started up and folded. Comair is the only one that survives and their is a good reason for that.

The real problem for the high prices lies with the taxes! In some cases it's more than the fare. Crazy... For serveses from a building that can't even move nevermind fly!

[Mynard]

Comair is definately hurting themselves with this one.

I phoned and sent my FlySafair reservasion to their reaccommodations@comair.co.za address, and have not had so much as a confimation of receipt back.

Looks like they are going to try and make it as difficult as possible for us to get re-accommodated on their planes.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. But come next week I'm getting on my soap box in the town square. And being an internet citizen, that is one Big <<moderated - language>> square. Hehehe

[Mynard]

Oops. Didn't know that a synonym for a donkey is a moderated word.

Sorry ... Lol

[evanb]

Over the years many private airlines have started up and folded. Comair is the only one that survives and their is a good reason for that.

The real problem for the high prices lies with the taxes! In some cases it's more than the fare. Crazy... For serveses from a building that can't even move nevermind fly!

What are you talking about? The continuing basic misconception about the differences between taxes (including VAT and airport taxes) and carrier surcharges that airlines try to show off as taxes.

Take a CPT-JNB-CPT fare on SAA. A total price of R3078 includes taxes and surcharges of R1458 versus a base fare of R1620. But of the R1458, only R540 is VAT and airport taxes, the other R918 is a carrier surcharge (also known as fuel surcharge)! The R540 is made up of Airport Tax of R240, Passenger Service Security Charge of R40, Passenger Safety Charge of R32 and VAT of R228. There is absolutely no ticket on sale in South Africa where the taxes, not carrier surcharges are anywhere close to the fare.

[sweptwing]

Over the years many private airlines have started up and folded. Comair is the only one that survives and their is a good reason for that.

The real problem for the high prices lies with the taxes! In some cases it's more than the fare. Crazy... For serveses from a building that can't even move nevermind fly!

What are you talking about? The continuing basic misconception about the differences between taxes (including VAT and airport taxes) and carrier surcharges that airlines try to show off as taxes.

Take a CPT-JNB-CPT fare on SAA. A total price of R3078 includes taxes and surcharges of R1458 versus a base fare of R1620. But of the R1458, only R540 is VAT and airport taxes, the other R918 is a carrier surcharge (also known as fuel surcharge)! The R540 is made up of Airport Tax of R240, Passenger Service Security Charge of R40, Passenger Safety Charge of R32 and VAT of R228. There is absolutely no ticket on sale in South Africa where the taxes, not carrier surcharges are anywhere close to the fare.

Thanks for the clarification. What exactly are surcharges for?

[evanb]

What exactly are surcharges for?

There are four reasons, firstly, it allows airlines to market and advertise the total cost as lower than they actually are, i.e. fly to Cape Town from R1620 (when the total cost is R3078)! Many countries have banned this practice and require the full fare to be advertised. Secondly, it allows airlines to allows ticket prices to vary with some exogenous variable, in this case the oil price. The base fare remains constant for each fare class (or varies by season) but the fuel surcharge will vary on a daily or weekly or monthly basis based on changes in the oil price and can, to some extent, protect airlines from significant variations in oil prices. Thirdly, it allows two components of the price to vary based on different things. By this I mean, it allows the base fare to vary by demand, as lower priced ticket classes get purchased the base fare rises, while the surcharge varies independent of demand. This might help smooth revenue a little. And finally, it is used to devalue award tickets through frequent flier programmes since usually these tickets require the passenger to pay all surcharges and taxes in cash.

[sweptwing]

What exactly are surcharges for?

There are four reasons, firstly, it allows airlines to market and advertise the total cost as lower than they actually are, i.e. fly to Cape Town from R1620 (when the total cost is R3078)! Many countries have banned this practice and require the full fare to be advertised. Secondly, it allows airlines to allows ticket prices to vary with some exogenous variable, in this case the oil price. The base fare remains constant for each fare class (or varies by season) but the fuel surcharge will vary on a daily or weekly or monthly basis based on changes in the oil price and can, to some extent, protect airlines from significant variations in oil prices. Thirdly, it allows two components of the price to vary based on different things. By this I mean, it allows the base fare to vary by demand, as lower priced ticket classes get purchased the base fare rises, while the surcharge varies independent of demand. This might help smooth revenue a little. And finally, it is used to devalue award tickets through frequent flier programmes since usually these tickets require the passenger to pay all surcharges and taxes in cash.

Rather sneaky for advertising but makes sense when cooking the books. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

[b7x7]

Mmmm
Just not cricket

Comair don't understand free enterprise, clearly not interested in healthy competition.
Shame on you

The flying public would really like a choice of private carrier.
Dak

And how would it be "healthy competition" if it turns out there are irregularities with their license?!? The court wouldn't have granted the interdict had there been NO grounds for a review. The law is the law!