Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), commonly known as a drone and also referred to as an unpiloted aerial vehicle and a remotely piloted aircraft (RPA) by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), is an aircraft without a human pilot aboard.

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Christo
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Christo » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:00 am

These things are everywhere now, rugby and cricket games in full stadiums use them too, check the T20 WC. they fly that thing around with impunity.

They tried and failed to convict someone in the US, they tried and failed to convict someone here. It's here to stay so get used to it.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by heisan » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:37 am

Christo wrote:They tried and failed to convict someone in the US, they tried and failed to convict someone here. It's here to stay so get used to it.
As I said before - US law and SA law are completely different. UAVs are covered by a poorly worded AIC in the US, but in South Africa, they are explicitly covered by the CARs. If the CAA ever does attempt enforcement against a UAV operator, I have no doubt that they will win.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Wayne01 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:29 am

heisan wrote:
Christo wrote:They tried and failed to convict someone in the US, they tried and failed to convict someone here. It's here to stay so get used to it.
As I said before - US law and SA law are completely different. UAVs are covered by a poorly worded AIC in the US, but in South Africa, they are explicitly covered by the CARs. If the CAA ever does attempt enforcement against a UAV operator, I have no doubt that they will win.
A law is an act of parliament, show me or give reference to the law which imposes the restrictions you are talking about.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by blender » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:34 am

There was a properly approved drone operation in Durban during the Sky GP weekend, would seem our SACAA may be coming to terms with the reality.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by heisan » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:43 am

bumjive01 wrote:
heisan wrote:
Christo wrote:They tried and failed to convict someone in the US, they tried and failed to convict someone here. It's here to stay so get used to it.
As I said before - US law and SA law are completely different. UAVs are covered by a poorly worded AIC in the US, but in South Africa, they are explicitly covered by the CARs. If the CAA ever does attempt enforcement against a UAV operator, I have no doubt that they will win.
A law is an act of parliament, show me or give reference to the law which imposes the restrictions you are talking about.
Read the links I posted earlier. Everything is there. The Civil Aviation Act defines an 'aircraft' and makes the CAA responsible for their regulation. The Civil Aviation Regulations define a UAV, and the appropriate regulations. The Domestic Air Services Act defines commercial use of an aircraft (as defined in the Civil Aviation Act), and the regulations around licensing such commercial operations.

I will leave it to you to show some part of these acts or regulations that would somehow exclude UAV/drone elation from these laws.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Wayne01 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:26 pm

I have read your links and don't seem to be coming to the same conclusions as you, this is going in circles, you said uav operators will be convicted in SA , my response was show me the laws whereby they will be charged, being charged requires breaking a law or act of parliament.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Coops » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:06 pm

Christo wrote:These things are everywhere now, rugby and cricket games in full stadiums use them too, check the T20 WC. they fly that thing around with impunity.
Hi Christo

If i am not mistaken, I think you may be refering to a "spider cam" affectionately refered to by some commentators as "spidey".
It is a camera system suspended on cables above the field as was used here for WC 2010.

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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Christo » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:20 pm

Coops wrote:
Christo wrote:These things are everywhere now, rugby and cricket games in full stadiums use them too, check the T20 WC. they fly that thing around with impunity.
Hi Christo

If i am not mistaken, I think you may be refering to a "spider cam" affectionately refered to by some commentators as "spidey".
It is a camera system suspended on cables above the field as was used here for WC 2010.

Warren
Nope, this one pretty much go everywhere. They go pretty low level, like in hip height to the players. Have a look on supersport
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Fat Frank » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:03 am

I was waiting for a repair to my car radio yesterday and came across a Dec issue of Popular Mech magazine. Over and above a great article on the new S Class M-Benz there is an in-depth look at local UAVs.

Seems there a few good manufactures here in SA and one, in Cape Town, will provide a UAV with real time tilt enabled camera (Go-Pro I think) for under R 20k. You wear goggles and can watch the flight from the comfort of your local pub. Has a range of 20km.

This has to be the future of most types of Arial surveillance.

I would suggest that the CAA et al get their act together PDQ and come up with workable guidelines less the whole thing slips away from them.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by farmpilot » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:23 pm

Do what you want with drones. The CAA will do absolutely nothing. They are a complete waste of time - all they are interested in is taking your money for services that should be free.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Rudix » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:36 pm

heisan wrote:As I said before - US law and SA law are completely different. UAVs are covered by a poorly worded AIC in the US, but in South Africa, they are explicitly covered by the CARs. If the CAA ever does attempt enforcement against a UAV operator, I have no doubt that they will win.
They have already tried, and lost!!!

UAV's are widely used all over the world, INCLUDING here is SA, shooting movies, doing shoots for add campaigns, real estate marketing, sport, surveying, surveillance, anti-poaching (even used by the parks board!!), factory and power pylon inspection, game counting, search and rescue and others to name a few.

There are people, with a legal background working on new rules and regulations, but they are part of the UAV industry and NOT CAA. There are several UAV manufacturers and commercial operators in the country including companies exporting to the rest of the world, it is becoming a booming industry that has some financial "clout".

There are even people doing flying instruction teaching operators to maintain, fly safely and get the most out of the equipment.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by A Corbett » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:45 pm

heisan wrote:in South Africa, they are explicitly covered by the CARs.
CAR Part 1 defines a UAV to be "not a model". There are no other regulations covering their use.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Hexapilot » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:35 am

Rudix wrote:
heisan wrote:As I said before - US law and SA law are completely different. UAVs are covered by a poorly worded AIC in the US, but in South Africa, they are explicitly covered by the CARs. If the CAA ever does attempt enforcement against a UAV operator, I have no doubt that they will win.
They have already tried, and lost!!!

UAV's are widely used all over the world, INCLUDING here is SA, shooting movies, doing shoots for add campaigns, real estate marketing, sport, surveying, surveillance, anti-poaching (even used by the parks board!!), factory and power pylon inspection, game counting, search and rescue and others to name a few.

There are people, with a legal background working on new rules and regulations, but they are part of the UAV industry and NOT CAA. There are several UAV manufacturers and commercial operators in the country including companies exporting to the rest of the world, it is becoming a booming industry that has some financial "clout".

There are even people doing flying instruction teaching operators to maintain, fly safely and get the most out of the equipment.
I am currently setting up a company to start with UAVs.
Leica Geosystems have a nice, but expensive system that is marketed by Aciel Geomatics in SA
http://www.aciel-geomatics.co.za/


http://www.leica-geosystems.com/en/Prod ... tm?id=4906


I wish I had the money to buy it.
They supply training as well.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Superfueler » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:24 am

A Corbett wrote:
heisan wrote:in South Africa, they are explicitly covered by the CARs.
CAR Part 1 defines a UAV to be "not a model". There are no other regulations covering their use.
This, ladies and Gentlemen is the crux of the matter.

And yep we do have a few companies in SA supplying good components but when you want decent minature optics for specialised applications ( you need to look to the USA and they are quite restrictive with certain component exports to non US Citizens)

Most companies only offer a few days training. I am doing training over 3 months. First remote control flying then the video and practicing with a distributors model and instruction in block hours. You really need to be properly trained on these things and no doubt about it previous remote control aircraft experience puts you well ahead. I have a lot of catching up to do.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by heisan » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:52 am

A Corbett wrote:
heisan wrote:in South Africa, they are explicitly covered by the CARs.
CAR Part 1 defines a UAV to be "not a model". There are no other regulations covering their use.
I am on vacation at the moment, and I am not going to waste my time copying and pasting large chunks of regulations for people who are too lazy to read for themselves.

The Civil Aviation Act defines an aircraft as (in summary) as anything that flies out of ground effect, and delegates the caa to create and enforce the regulations regarding the use of aircraft. The Civil Aviation Regulations are created under the authority of this act, and cover the operation of ALL aircraft as defined in the act. The CARs then define certain types of aircraft (eg kites, balloons, model aircraft) and then explicitly, by type, exclude those types from some of the regulations. If a specific type is not excluded from a regulation, then it is expected to follow that regulation.

UAVs are mentioned 3 times in the CARs:
1) the definition - effectively a model aircraft that is not used for recreation.
2) part 21 - UAVs are explicitly excluded from this part - so they do not require a type certificate ate.
3) part 24 - UAVs are explicitly included here - so they are required to follow the NTCA process.

Aside from that, there are no other mentions, so every regulation that applies to NTCA applies to UAVs.

Aside from the CARs, there is also the Domestic Air Services Licensing Act. This covers services offered using aircraft as defined in the Civil Aviation Act. (i. e. All aircraft from balloons to kites, model aircraft, and UAVs.) This act says that if you sell a service using an aircraft, you need an air services license. There are NO exclusions in this act based on type of aircraft.

The may be plenty of people using UAVs commercially, but I can promise you that if anyone cheeses off the wrong people, they will be prosecuted and found guilty.
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