Hunting Destinations

Information regarding aviation friendly destinations and airfields.

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Marius Schrenk
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Wed May 10, 2017 5:19 pm

Winchman wrote:
TikkaT3 wrote:
Winchman wrote:
Another point on the sheep. In the Karoo one used to get massive herds of Springbok that roamed the area (not too long ago, less than 10 years ago). These days they are few and far between. I was discussing this with a Karoo sheep farmer a while ago. He said why must he go to all the hassle of getting groups of hunters in to hunt Springbok at R350 each when he can get R800 for a sheep at the market for virtually no effort?

The Springbok compete with the sheep for grazing so the Springbok no longer exist on that farm.

That's how hunting ensures the existence of the species.

On the flip side, for farmers that do decide to farm with game in the Karoo, they're now charging R1200 for a Springbok so that they can stay afloat. This is very expensive and as with aviation, hunting prices are becoming out of reach of the average Joe Soap. When the point comes when the hunters can't afford those prices, the farmer will remove the Springbok and farm with sheep.
Agreed Tikka

Its all about economics at the end of the day however, at the upper end of the hunting sector, the prices realised for bigger animals whether purely for the table or as trophy animals starts the swing in the other direction. The breeding of unique strains and unusual colourations that have become incredibly sought after has also made game farming more lucrative and a real prospect as opposed to cattle or sheep in some areas, however I think that sheep farming is with us to stay because of the demand and return for the farmer which one can understand. All that said, I am not in favour of the very scientific selective breeding for unnatural strains and I believe that bubble will also burst at some stage.
All of us farmers are in the energy business. :shock: Nature gives us energy for free...the sun. What we do with it determines our income. The plants we culture and the way we manage and use it determines the volume of product we produce with the free energy and water (rain). The product it selves(and its habits) definitely influence the growth curve and volume of grazing.Locally adapted grazing is in some low rainfall areas the only and most efficient plant to convert sun energy into plant energy.Without the grazing the energy from the sun is of no use to all other animals (apart from a sun tan for stupid city dwellers :wink:) So if you value the plant for its amazing job of converting sun energy into useful energy you should respect it enough to use its end product in the most profitable and sustainable way.Sheep and cattle are "foreign" animals to Africa :idea: they do great damage to the natural grazing due to their grazing habits.Whats the answer ? Obviously locally adapted game animals. How do you harvest them ? The average growth in a well adapted herd is 30 %/a. What else should one do with the land.......how else to harvest the sun's energy and the rain ? as a food source for humans ? Most game animals are harvested by shooting teams with spot lights at night....head shots...not to spoil the meat.(if I have to die violently may that please be the way) Farmers can with some extra trouble get a little extra money for their efforts by allowing some hunting......but that's as small % of what needed to be removed in order to preserve the grazing for sustainable production. :idea:
Last edited by Marius Schrenk on Sat May 13, 2017 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by Winchman » Wed May 10, 2017 5:25 pm

Marius Schrenk wrote:
Winchman wrote:
TikkaT3 wrote:
Another point on the sheep. In the Karoo one used to get massive herds of Springbok that roamed the area (not too long ago, less than 10 years ago). These days they are few and far between. I was discussing this with a Karoo sheep farmer a while ago. He said why must he go to all the hassle of getting groups of hunters in to hunt Springbok at R350 each when he can get R800 for a sheep at the market for virtually no effort?

The Springbok compete with the sheep for grazing so the Springbok no longer exist on that farm.

That's how hunting ensures the existence of the species.

On the flip side, for farmers that do decide to farm with game in the Karoo, they're now charging R1200 for a Springbok so that they can stay afloat. This is very expensive and as with aviation, hunting prices are becoming out of reach of the average Joe Soap. When the point comes when the hunters can't afford those prices, the farmer will remove the Springbok and farm with sheep.
Agreed Tikka

Its all about economics at the end of the day however, at the upper end of the hunting sector, the prices realised for bigger animals whether purely for the table or as trophy animals starts the swing in the other direction. The breeding of unique strains and unusual colourations that have become incredibly sought after has also made game farming more lucrative and a real prospect as opposed to cattle or sheep in some areas, however I think that sheep farming is with us to stay because of the demand and return for the farmer which one can understand. All that said, I am not in favour of the very scientific selective breeding for unnatural strains and I believe that bubble will also burst at some stage.
All of us farmers are in the energy business. :shock: Nature gives us energy for free...the sun. What we do with it determines our income. The plants we culture and the way we manage and use it determines the volume of product we produce with the free energy and water (rain). The product it selves(and its habits) definitely influence the growth curve and volume of grazing.Locally adapted grazing is in some low rainfall areas the only and most efficient plant to convert sun energy into plant energy.Without the grazing the energy from the sun is of no use to all other animals (apart from a sun tan for stupid city dwellers :wink:) So if you value the plant for its amazing job of converting sun energy into useful energy you should respect it enough to use its end product in the most profitable and sustainable way.Sheep and cattle are "foreign" animals to Africa :idea: they do great damage to the natural grazing due to their grazing habits.Whats the answer ? Obviously locally adapted game animals. How do you harvest them ? The average growth in a well adapted herd is 30 %/a. What else should one do with the land.......how else to harvest the sun's energy and the rain ? as a food saucer for humans ? Most game animals are harvested by shooting teams with spot lights at night....head shots...not to spoil the meat.(if I have to die violently may that please be the way) Farmers can with some extra trouble get a little extra money for their efforts by allowing some hunting......but that's as small % of what needed to be removed in order to preserve the grazing for sustainable production. :idea:
Well put Marius. At the end of the day as you say it is all about energy transfer. In years gone by we traded energy and good by means of the barter system, your bag of wheat for my leg of lamb. Economies of scale and the trading of different commodities and skills means that we now sell our time for a value (most of us) usually calculated on a per month basis for which we get a representation (money) of our reward. Increasing numbers of people mean that the essentials are produced on a larger scale and we buy them with our money. Funny how something that was created to make trading easier has become the entire focus. Its all about the money.
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by CWS » Wed May 10, 2017 6:51 pm

The law with regard to game ownership was changed, the hunting industry took off and the effect? By 2007 it was estimated that there are now in excess of 18 million game animals in the country and the total area under private game management is more than 4 times the size of all the national parks put together. ALL PAID FOR BY HUNTERS. So that's what we contributed, what did you contribute?

Oh, and by the way, those 18 million game animal breed EVERY year and there isn't any more space for more animals so ALL the growth has to be removed every year to keep numbers within capacity PLUS someone has to PAY the farmer not to switch to farming with something else, that's what we hunters do.


C[/quote]
+1
The fact is that despite what bunny hungers say & think hunters are major contributors to conservation & as much as you may not like the idea of animals being hunted without hunters there would be negligible game outside of the National Parks & conservation areas. Simple fact in our society, if it can't pay its way it's not likely to survive.
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by EtienneG » Wed May 10, 2017 7:11 pm

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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by apollo11 » Wed May 10, 2017 8:12 pm

Hi Winchman, my comments about having your face bitten off by a lion and or a puff adder bite resulting in half your bum cheek falling off was unfair - I apologize.

But nothing will convince me hunting is kosher, live and let live, I know in this increasingly for profit or reward world we live in that is becoming sadly impossible, the abattoirs are even more shocking.

A Doctor friend once told me that that abattoir meat was causing anxiety, fear and aggression in meat loving people as according to him an enzyme was released shortly before they were killed, as the animals sensed and smelled the others fear.
That enzyme ingested has a negative effect on humans, not sure how true his theory was but looking how the world is going maybe he had some point.

I enjoy nature and especially enjoy watching wildlife in their splendor unmolested, The famous Chief Sitting Bull once commented when all the wild animals have been wiped out, man will experience a great loneliness of spirit and his destruction will be certain, words to that effect and I think he was right, we are and will gradually destroy everything around us and then finally each other for whatever befalls the earth will befall man..

Well my final word, I have studying to do.

The Souls of Animals by Gary Kowalski:
‘No longer can we discount the lives of sensitive and intelligent creatures merely because they assume nonhuman form. The things that make life most precious and blest – courage and daring, conscience and compassion, imagination and originality, fantasy and play – do not belong to our kind alone.
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by Winchman » Wed May 10, 2017 8:39 pm

apollo11 wrote:Hi Winchman, my comments about having your face bitten off by a lion and or a puff adder bite resulting in half your bum cheek falling off was unfair - I apologize.

But nothing will convince me hunting is kosher, live and let live, I know in this increasingly for profit or reward world we live in that is becoming sadly impossible, the abattoirs are even more shocking.

A Doctor friend once told me that that abattoir meat was causing anxiety, fear and aggression in meat loving people as according to him an enzyme was released shortly before they were killed, as the animals sensed and smelled the others fear.
That enzyme ingested has a negative effect on humans, not sure how true his theory was but looking how the world is going maybe he had some point.

I enjoy nature and especially enjoy watching wildlife in their splendor unmolested, The famous Chief Sitting Bull once commented when all the wild animals have been wiped out, man will experience a great loneliness of spirit and his destruction will be certain, words to that effect and I think he was right, we are and will gradually destroy everything around us and then finally each other for whatever befalls the earth will befall man..

Well my final word, I have studying to do.

The Souls of Animals by Gary Kowalski:
‘No longer can we discount the lives of sensitive and intelligent creatures merely because they assume nonhuman form. The things that make life most precious and blest – courage and daring, conscience and compassion, imagination and originality, fantasy and play – do not belong to our kind alone.
Dont worry Apollo. It will take a hell of a lot more than that to get my bum cheek to fall off! :lol:

That bit of Indian wisdom is spot on, and coming from someone who lived by hunting too. Unfortunately, modern / Western man with his technology and greed have made it easy to destroy.

At the end of the day I think we are coming from the same place of respect for the environment and all that forms part of it. I just choose to continue to utilise wild animals as a source of protein and you choose not to and I think that is ok. The problem is neither with your philosophy or mine, but with the plonkers that subscribe to neither and wantonly destroy and consume without the respect that we both stand for.
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Wed May 10, 2017 8:54 pm

apollo11 wrote:Hi Winchman, my comments about having your face bitten off by a lion and or a puff adder bite resulting in half your bum cheek falling off was unfair - I apologize.

But nothing will convince me hunting is kosher, live and let live, I know in this increasingly for profit or reward world we live in that is becoming sadly impossible, the abattoirs are even more shocking.

A Doctor friend once told me that that abattoir meat was causing anxiety, fear and aggression in meat loving people as according to him an enzyme was released shortly before they were killed, as the animals sensed and smelled the others fear.
That enzyme ingested has a negative effect on humans, not sure how true his theory was but looking how the world is going maybe he had some point.

I enjoy nature and especially enjoy watching wildlife in their splendor unmolested, The famous Chief Sitting Bull once commented when all the wild animals have been wiped out, man will experience a great loneliness of spirit and his destruction will be certain, words to that effect and I think he was right, we are and will gradually destroy everything around us and then finally each other for whatever befalls the earth will befall man..

Well my final word, I have studying to do.

The Souls of Animals by Gary Kowalski:
‘No longer can we discount the lives of sensitive and intelligent creatures merely because they assume nonhuman form. The things that make life most precious and blest – courage and daring, conscience and compassion, imagination and originality, fantasy and play – do not belong to our kind alone.
:? What should be produced on the grasslands/grazing of the world ? How should it get into the human food chain ? (apart from milk :wink: ) How are you going to replace protein in the human nourishment ? Please do not tell me soya.....go research what its production does to the earth.....and see the side effects of the female hormone in it....in China.How do you propose we limit the numbers of animals on limited grazing ?....birth control ?.What should happen to older animals that are past breeding age ? Euthanasia?...or slow death due to malnutrition ? ....teeth gone.What do we do with all the carcasses? How do you propose we finance this utopia ? ?....photographic safaris ?
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by SlowApproach » Wed May 10, 2017 10:26 pm

Perfect solution to the world's protein requirements: Soylent Green. You'll never run out of the main ingredient :twisted: =P~ :lol:

For those too young to remember...
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by AntonE » Wed May 10, 2017 10:51 pm

Some very good and logical submissions Winchman,Tikka and Marius.
The typical rabid's response of "nothing will convince me ", regardless of sound and unemotional reasoning never cease to amaze me.
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by Only » Thu May 11, 2017 4:49 am

apollo11 wrote:Well therein lies the problem in the first place, if humans let live and never interfered in the first place we would not be in the catch 22 quandary. It is humans, man that has caused the problem, not nature.

My contribution? Respect and let live for these special creatures, that is ALL the contribution we are supposed to give. and I do support the WWF and a few other bodies.

The old saying "shoot nothing but photographs leave nothing but footprints."

To quietly for example observe a magnificent elephant or a elegant buck in the wild is a fantastic thing, to see the animals shot up with ass@%oles posing with their great big rifles and the dead animal now no longer, thinking they are like apparent special forces which they are nowhere near not (they fight the very good fight) is sickening.

I have no qualm with folk that live in really tough environments like certain parts of Alaska and Northern Canada that need to hunt for their food to survive, I get that, and the respect for nature that many of the people that say a little ancient prayer that it's not personal but for survival every time they hunt. But the modern man living in a modern society?

Yeah it's a round and round argument but lets face it, man is the weakest link, and we are the ones destroying the planet and unfortunately just too many others that don't give a toss.
It will come back to bite us already is and I'm really not sure what the future generations will inherit, my guess is pretty much not much with plenty of chaos. All self induced.
Just for the record the WWF also supports hunting to fund conservation. Not even the type of hunting the guys here support but trophy hunting.

http://wwf.panda.org/?14073/Hunting-for-conservation
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by Trevorn » Thu May 11, 2017 6:45 am

Regardless of any pro or anti argument regarding hunting I seriously wonder about the phycological make up of a human that kills for pleasure.

Having fun while killing cannot be regarded as normal in a modern world.

Having a debate about hunting with a hunter is a bit like having a debate about race with hitler in 1939. Sure lots of "staristics" will be quoted........
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by C Africa » Thu May 11, 2017 7:40 am

Trevorn wrote:Regardless of any pro or anti argument regarding hunting I seriously wonder about the phycological make up of a human that kills for pleasure.

Having fun while killing cannot be regarded as normal in a modern world.

Having a debate about hunting with a hunter is a bit like having a debate about race with hitler in 1939. Sure lots of "staristics" will be quoted........

Then clearly there are an enormous number of abnormal people in the world. I am one of them. Oh, and I don't suffer from my insanity, I enjoy every moment of it!!!


C
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by Mike Wienk » Thu May 11, 2017 7:51 am

+1 amazing to be in the bush
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by TikkaT3 » Thu May 11, 2017 8:05 am

Trevorn wrote:Regardless of any pro or anti argument regarding hunting I seriously wonder about the phycological make up of a human that kills for pleasure.

Having fun while killing cannot be regarded as normal in a modern world.

Having a debate about hunting with a hunter is a bit like having a debate about race with hitler in 1939. Sure lots of "staristics" will be quoted........
If you read this thread you'll notice the contrary. The pro-hunters come with objective views and don't tread on the armchair conservationist's beliefs or life choices. It's the bunny huggers that put forward all the irrational fictional blabber get personal with some empty threats in there as well.

BTW, I don't "have fun while killing" (I reckon 90% of hunters agree). I enjoy the weekend in the bush with my family and enjoy walking in the bush. A bonus is when I can immediately and ethically dispatch an animal so that I can utilize its meat. One doesn't just shoot things blindly behind every corner. Most animals are stalked unsuccessfully, plans busted by a Grey-Lourie, days walked without seeing your target quarry... I feel no chest-pump after the shot, no ego boost. All I feel is respect for the animal, fortunate that I could take its life to able to provide and always some sadness as well. A feeling that I've never gotten when buying a steak at Spar, what a waste of life.
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Re: Hunting Destinations

Unread post by Trevorn » Thu May 11, 2017 8:18 am

Heil c africa and tikka t3.
Did Ted bundy also not think he was normal?

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