CAA - Drone / UAV contact person

[Trevor Duane]

Thank you for the information

What I heard is that it costs almost the same to get an SA drone setup for commercial use as it does a light aircraft, and with an equal amount of paperwork? ? Is that true?

ASL – Air Service Licence
ROC – RPAS Operators Certificate
RLA – RPAS Letter of Approval
RPL – Remote Pilot Licence
CofR – Certificate of Registration

At this time the above list is correct yes but as for cost most def not the case. I know a few who have completed all above for the same cost as an average PPL in SA

[apollo11]

Wow, the average PPL (F/W) nowadays is anything between 75 and R120.000 last time I looked!

That is still a rather substantial layout for most people. And this is also what I've been hearing the substantial financial outlay for that little drone is one thing, but then the commercial operation ready add on costs via CAA is simply beyond reach for many.

Phew, ok well I'm sure more than a few people are watching anxiously for positive outcomes, thank you again for the answers and discussion.

[Trevor Duane]

Wow, the average PPL (F/W) nowadays is anything between 75 and R120.000 last time I looked!

That is still a rather substantial layout for most people. And this is also what I've been hearing the substantial financial outlay for that little drone is one thing, but then the commercial operation ready add on costs via CAA is simply beyond reach for many.

Phew, ok well I'm sure more than a few people are watching anxiously for positive outcomes, thank you again for the answers and discussion.

Pleasure Perry, yes agreed it is substantial. But more concerning that the actual rand value is the time it takes.

[apollo11]

Absolutely SA in general and CAA specifically appear to love reams of paperwork, red tape and suffocating bureaucracy.

Something that really does not need complication with adequate appropriate rules in place becomes unbelievably complex in actual implementation and execution.

[zander]

Absolutely SA in general and CAA specifically appear to love reams of paperwork, red tape and suffocating bureaucracy.

Something that really does not need complication with adequate appropriate rules in place becomes unbelievably complex in actual implementation and execution.

Fully Intentionally so. it's only a small part of the bigger working plan to discourage competition from those shooting themselves in the foot to actually try go through the suicide trial cursed upon them when they make the dreadful wrong decision to try and get licensed in this very country.

But wait.. i can say a lot more.... perhaps in the next response..

[edwoodza]

REF cost of documentation.
If you know aviation and its requirements you can DIY cheaply
BUT if you not and you new and green you have to pay school fees either to consultants or those in the know.

Its like saying "wow a degree to be an engineer to sign off engineering drawings costs alot its not fair" BUT its FREE for qualified engineers cause they payed the school fees as well.

Reality is drone pilots etc who are greenhorns in aviation cant expect to have it handed to them on a silver platter. ALL things take work and experience, there are no instant anything. Imagine an instant airline pilot? would you want that NO.

So yes it can be costly BUT its costly because you coming in green.
Those who have completed the process faster have aviation background hence the speed. CAA sees this and there are less delays.

Quality and Safety Management for aviation is totally different to the other industries. this is where people go wrong as well as they don't know this and then the QM and SM fail CAA inspection due to it. All comes back to experience in aviation

[zander]

Problem is the "school fees" is just a tiny part of the bigger plan to discourage the growth of this industry in sa.

There are many experienced pilots not being able to afford the ridiculous,outrageous operating costs operating illegally and safe, whereas there are many greenhorns up and going operating "legally" because they have the cash, but don't have the experience to operate safely, so in essence again this being another example of corruption taking precedence over fairness and safety, paper says nothing about how you can and will fly, again in sa it comes down to, capitalism,corruption and bureaucracy as always have been the case.

[edwoodza]

again you making the MISTAKE of separating drones from aviation. This is the thinking that's causing the problems for the RPAS industry.
You are now grown ups playing in Aviation airspace, no longer using toys to do work with.

FEW if any have experience operating drones as part of aviation, toys yes. RPAS is drones as part of aviation and not separate.
So everyone starting in the new industry has to pay school fees to learn and get up to safety standards that are audited.

So school fees needed if you not in aviation OR dedicated time of learning and humbling ones self to do it.
Arrogance of RPAS is what gets CAA's back up.
If you know aviation you know you have to die inside and just accept CAA and do what you need to do it you want to do what you need to do.

hate to break it to you.

[micmaq]

From another perspective here is our experience in Canada

Got a Phantom drone as a Xmas pressie and enjoyed playing with it and thought maybe we can use it to make some beer money

Build up a website easy and free WIX.com ; tried photography with the drone and presto, practice makes perfect

Now the lisensing bit - As I am a PPL we applied for a Exception from Transport Canada which was granted without any hassle - As a member of COPA (Canadian Owners And Pilots Association) we were able to get liability insurance at a really good rate - Now we are legal, insured and open for business - That was 18 months ago and the drone photography business is booming

Check out https://aidenserjeant.wixsite.com/mysite/home and the work we turn out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJYNRDi6cng - We typically post on Youtube for the Real Estate listings

For the life of me I do not understand why the SA CAA make it so difficult to get started in this new industry

[edwoodza]

TIA, and South Africa I generally not a law abiding culture saying law does not apply to me.
hence caa can't trust people to do the right thing and follow laws as people do in Canada.

Also interesting how USA and UK are changing their drone laws following backward South Africa. so maybe part 101 is not as backward as we may like to think.

[apollo11]

I don't think part 101 is the problem per se, it's the real world implementation thereof and the heinous required costs

[zander]

again you making the MISTAKE of separating drones from aviation. This is the thinking that's causing the problems for the RPAS industry.
You are now grown ups playing in Aviation airspace, no longer using toys to do work with.

FEW if any have experience operating drones as part of aviation, toys yes. RPAS is drones as part of aviation and not separate.
So everyone starting in the new industry has to pay school fees to learn and get up to safety standards that are audited.

So school fees needed if you not in aviation OR dedicated time of learning and humbling ones self to do it.
Arrogance of RPAS is what gets CAA's back up.
If you know aviation you know you have to die inside and just accept CAA and do what you need to do it you want to do what you need to do.

hate to break it to you.

Hate to break it to you but You are missing the point, YES FEW have experience operating drones as part of aviation true, but there are those that does have Experience good enough to be implemented, that is why those that DO have the most experience should be given preference.

NOT working like that IN SA sorry, they want your bank account and your papers. if you have deep pockets, you can ride an ice cream cart, they'd be happy to see where they can accommodate you for getting "legal" to operate.

Drone regulations in SA is NOT working, and if it stays like this never ever will, things will become much worse if it keeps on being played unfairly like it is.

I'm not accepting this CORRUPTION i don't care what the excuses, overseas they have regulations that WORK with a population that absolutely DWARFS our little dot on the planet, meaning the risk being 100s if not 1000s of times larger, and it still WORKS.

[zander]

TIA, and South Africa I generally not a law abiding culture saying law does not apply to me.
hence caa can't trust people to do the right thing and follow laws as people do in Canada.

Also interesting how USA and UK are changing their drone laws following backward South Africa. so maybe part 101 is not as backward as we may like to think.

Will never ever work in practice. They will end up using their current regulations in practice, sa regulations only looks "good" on paper and they know it. Impossible to work in practice.

[zander]

From another perspective here is our experience in Canada

Got a Phantom drone as a Xmas pressie and enjoyed playing with it and thought maybe we can use it to make some beer money

Build up a website easy and free WIX.com ; tried photography with the drone and presto, practice makes perfect

Now the lisensing bit - As I am a PPL we applied for a Exception from Transport Canada which was granted without any hassle - As a member of COPA (Canadian Owners And Pilots Association) we were able to get liability insurance at a really good rate - Now we are legal, insured and open for business - That was 18 months ago and the drone photography business is booming

Check out https://aidenserjeant.wixsite.com/mysite/home and the work we turn out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJYNRDi6cng - We typically post on Youtube for the Real Estate listings

For the life of me I do not understand why the SA CAA make it so difficult to get started in this new industry

[edwoodza]

@ Zander you say some have "experience operating drones" to what standard and in who's opinion?
Unless there is a set standard to measure against, experience is subjective and bias.
Just because you have drive a car for years does not mean you are a safe commercial driver.

The costs people complain about are NOT from CAA side, so blaming them is not really fair. CAA costs for pushing paper is relatively fair.
The costs come from lack of experience in aviation and the documentation required to be inline with standards which people who are not in the know, newbies farm out to consultants who rape and pillage.
AGAIN drones and aviation can not be separated they one and the same.

I will be the 1st to admit 101 is a pain in the <<moderated - language>>, but its responsible and keeps the cowboys with no accountability or regard for others out. This brings quality control to the industry as well.

In all new industries there are school fees, people can hold the breath stamp their feet crying or they can suck it up and get with the program.

Reality is everyone no matter their experience are newbies to drones in the formalized industry (even those self proclaimed experienced who actually have zero RPAS aviation experience) and like all new industries it takes years to establish its self and normalize the regulation.

Crying about it and moaning and operating illegally breaking the laws because you don't like the law will not help anything but prove to CAA and others why more regulation is needed which will make it worse in the end.