SAA after Business rescue

Discussions pertaining to Airline operations,safety and training for Flight Deck Crew. Open to anyone who would like to learn all aspects of the Airline industry from a pilots perspective.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
jbayfan
HASSELL checks
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:09 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by jbayfan »

You might just have that chance Caravan Driver. Rumours are that 130 to 140 SAA pilots have submitted CV's to Emirates, Qatar and others. Emirates holding an interview session in SA in a week's time.
C182, C210, PA30, PA34, 7ECA, R2160i, AC11, BE55, BE58, SR22, BE90, BE20, B190, BE99, C501, DC3, DHC6, B732, B733, B734, B744, A319, A320, A332, A333, A342, A343, A346, R44, UH1H (Pending: HX50, HC50)
Mouser
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 613
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:31 pm
Closest Airfield: King Shaka
Location: Durban
Has thanked: 1838 times
Been thanked: 148 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by Mouser »

I flew SAA to Frankfurt last year and was well impressed. Their safety record is very good; thanks SAAT. The whole entity, like Eskom hs lots of good people, seemingly none in the right place.

evanb has answered this before - where do SAA's problems lie? I suspected simple looting and tenderpreneuring that is well published although not in detail; the expensive water and fuel. evanb felt (if I recall correctly), from the last published results, it was just plain incompetent management, although I am sure looting would not be obvious from the financials.

The rhetorical question is; can it be rescued? Surely the right solution is to break off Mango and SAAT as separate entities, reduce SAA to international services? Actually looking at the ANC style of either deploy cadres or offload to their friends etoll style. I give up; as a taxpayer - I say close it.
LongRangeCruise
Reaching GFA
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 5:03 pm
Closest Airfield: OR Tambo Intl
Location: Johannesburg
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by LongRangeCruise »

It’s all RUMOUR - not many SAA Pilots would leave unless the BRP required a reduction in Pilots.
the pilots that didn’t take unpaid leave last year are the ones that don’t want to leave SA. Those of us left would seriously have to be forced out. :mrgreen:
TerryN
Aircraft in Hangar
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:16 pm
Closest Airfield: Wonderboom
Location: Pretoria
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by TerryN »

Rumors or not, you can bet your pfund that there will be job losses in every department at SAA (a number of 5000 being touted by some economic gurus) It's not going to be the same business that it was last week: already HKG under the spot light and PER to follow. As VJ said "not making any money east of Dubai", that's a significant number of FDC and CC just on those two routes, add to the possibility of GRU becoming 3 weekly I'd venture a guess that a few will be "forced" out. Get those logbook and CV's up to date chaps 👨‍✈️
TerryN
Aircraft in Hangar
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:16 pm
Closest Airfield: Wonderboom
Location: Pretoria
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by TerryN »

PS not all the pilots who took unpaid leave necessarily WANTED to leave SA, perhaps they were wanting to not have the threat of furlough hanging over their heads after being told by their union that the company was over staffed by some 200 pilots and to find something else 😉.
Piperdriver
Steep Turn Left
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:42 pm
Closest Airfield: FAOR
Location: RSA
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by Piperdriver »

Sadly I can’t see anyway but a substantial downsizing in terms of fleet, trending rumor (completely unsubstantiated) Points to a A350 and A320 only fleet. I’m not sure of that this is all that accurate given that the 330 is still a useful machine in terms of economics.
User avatar
HAAN
Six Tousand
Six Tousand
Posts: 6116
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:17 pm
Closest Airfield: OMDB
Location: ..
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by HAAN »

Notification to the suppliers to SAA.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
HJK 414
8000 Tousand
8000 Tousand
Posts: 8392
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:34 pm
Closest Airfield: moon
Location: mooncity
Has thanked: 656 times
Been thanked: 1490 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by HJK 414 »

Am I the only one finding this letter odd ??

I assume it is an effort by SAAT explaining the situation to their clientele …..

Yet - SAAT is stating that they are - despite being a fully owned subsidiary - not under the "business rescue" ……
I was under the impression that the business rescue effort is for the whole SAA organisation

They however happily refer to the 2 Billion rand being handed to SAA (now they are suddenly "part of it" again ?? )
Is this now only to re-assure the creditors ??.
The "intention" is to pay all creditors - that should make them feel good …... :roll:

JK.
1900driver
Flaps set for Take off
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:48 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by 1900driver »

It is expected that more funding will follow soon after? :shock:

Moody’s hold our beer.
User avatar
Deanw
8000 Tousand
8000 Tousand
Posts: 8149
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:37 pm
Closest Airfield: FACT
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 908 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by Deanw »

HJK 414 wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:48 am Yet - SAAT is stating that they are - despite being a fully owned subsidiary - not under the "business rescue" ……
I was under the impression that the business rescue effort is for the whole SAA organisation
It is South African Airways SOC Ltd (the legal entity) that is under BR, not the subsidiaries. The BR practitioner can apply to the Court if he wants to place a subsidiary into BR (or the Board of that subsidiary can pass a resolution to that effect).
These users thanked the author Deanw for the post:
Darren
How come every time my ship comes in I'm at the airport?

http://www.SAairforce.co.za
grjplanes
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1023
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:17 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by grjplanes »

Piperdriver wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:43 am Sadly I can’t see anyway but a substantial downsizing in terms of fleet, trending rumor (completely unsubstantiated) Points to a A350 and A320 only fleet. I’m not sure of that this is all that accurate given that the 330 is still a useful machine in terms of economics.
Is it possible that Mango can take the A319s and make it work, how much life do they still have in them, will retrofitting be worth it?

Will Mango perhaps also be allowed to take over some of SAA's route rights regionally...maybe LVI and some of the other mulitple daily routes...if they could operate with both on a route ie: to WDH, HRE, LUN and MPM, say Mango do 1 of the 3 daily flights.
Piperdriver
Steep Turn Left
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:42 pm
Closest Airfield: FAOR
Location: RSA
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by Piperdriver »

Would the scope clause element in the SAAPA not preclude this? What happens to layout agreements under the business rescue process?
User avatar
Ray W
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 19751
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:17 pm
Closest Airfield: OR Tambo
Location: Atlasville.
Has thanked: 3333 times
Been thanked: 1099 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by Ray W »

grjplanes wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:32 am
Piperdriver wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:43 am Sadly I can’t see anyway but a substantial downsizing in terms of fleet, trending rumor (completely unsubstantiated) Points to a A350 and A320 only fleet. I’m not sure of that this is all that accurate given that the 330 is still a useful machine in terms of economics.
Is it possible that Mango can take the A319s and make it work, how much life do they still have in them, will retrofitting be worth it?

Will Mango perhaps also be allowed to take over some of SAA's route rights regionally...maybe LVI and some of the other mulitple daily routes...if they could operate with both on a route ie: to WDH, HRE, LUN and MPM, say Mango do 1 of the 3 daily flights.
I don't think Mango have the capacity available with their current fleet to be able to take on more routes
Old age & treachery will triumph over youth & skill
grjplanes
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1023
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:17 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by grjplanes »

Ray W wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:25 am
grjplanes wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:32 am
Piperdriver wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:43 am Sadly I can’t see anyway but a substantial downsizing in terms of fleet, trending rumor (completely unsubstantiated) Points to a A350 and A320 only fleet. I’m not sure of that this is all that accurate given that the 330 is still a useful machine in terms of economics.
Is it possible that Mango can take the A319s and make it work, how much life do they still have in them, will retrofitting be worth it?

Will Mango perhaps also be allowed to take over some of SAA's route rights regionally...maybe LVI and some of the other mulitple daily routes...if they could operate with both on a route ie: to WDH, HRE, LUN and MPM, say Mango do 1 of the 3 daily flights.
I don't think Mango have the capacity available with their current fleet to be able to take on more routes
That's why I'm asking regarding the possibility of the A319s being moved over to Mango as well?
LongRangeCruise
Reaching GFA
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 5:03 pm
Closest Airfield: OR Tambo Intl
Location: Johannesburg
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Solidarity (and now the Government) to put SAA into Business rescue

Unread post by LongRangeCruise »

There is no clear plan. The BRP has not made a decision regarding the SAA fleet or route structure.
It’s all rumour mongering at the moment.

Return to “Airline Chatter”