Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Discussions pertaining to Airline operations,safety and training for Flight Deck Crew. Open to anyone who would like to learn all aspects of the Airline industry from a pilots perspective.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Burner
Fife Thousand feet
Fife Thousand feet
Posts: 5228
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:21 pm
Closest Airfield: LIMB
Location: Northern Italy
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 677 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by Burner »

Seems like of the 8 SAA B744s, only one is still flying... ex ZS-SBK. Two were converted to freighters and flown by Cathay until recently. The rest went to Transaero, which would possibly still be flying had they not gone bust in 2015.
Romeo E.T.
Niner Tousand
Niner Tousand
Posts: 9199
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:49 pm
Closest Airfield: FAJS
Location: JHB INTL/Kpt Park/Rand Apt
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 284 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by Romeo E.T. »

found this stunning image on the net (w.r.t. B747)

Image
These users thanked the author Romeo E.T. for the post (total 4):
Ugly Ducklingmike.allaway2Euro FlyerAjay
sometimes we suffer a bit from C.R.A.F.T. sickness..Can't Remember A F@#%ing Thing

https://www.facebook.com/ralf.t.schulz
ERASER
Joining unmanned airfield circuit
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:22 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by ERASER »

Ugly Duckling wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:01 pm
gregdeklerk wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:38 pm Hats off to BA for making the 744 work so well for them. Why did SAA dump their 744 with even lower cycles? Captured perhaps?
Captured by Coleman :evil:
No matter what Dudu said about Coleman, Coleman actually went to Boeing and got SAA IIRC 4 x B747 on the deposit of the B777's that was delayed (about engines) until they missed the production slots. I'm no fan of CA however not all that came from his office was bad.......
These users thanked the author ERASER for the post (total 3):
Ugly DucklingGLEDP
African Flyer
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1736
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:55 pm
Closest Airfield: FAGC
Has thanked: 194 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by African Flyer »

Credit to BA for maintaining these aircraft for so long =D> . Its too bad they didn't invest in the 747-8i
These users thanked the author African Flyer for the post:
mike.allaway2
Positive rate! :D
CockpitCat
Rolling
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:31 am
Closest Airfield: FASH
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by CockpitCat »

I assume the 777 is more economical/efficient compared to the 747? If that is the case, why is BA still using the 747?
bogey 10
Post Take off checks
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:23 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by bogey 10 »

CockpitCat wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:48 am I assume the 777 is more economical/efficient compared to the 747? If that is the case, why is BA still using the 747?
QA are still running 10 x 744's and remains a favorite for many of the crews. Out performs the A380 in many ways. But QA now lookin to phase them out with 787s and the 777X/A350 campaign will replace the rest– and perhaps one or two A380s.
User avatar
HJK 414
8000 Tousand
8000 Tousand
Posts: 8392
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:34 pm
Closest Airfield: moon
Location: mooncity
Has thanked: 717 times
Been thanked: 1599 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by HJK 414 »

bogey 10 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:10 am
QA are still running 10 x 744's and remains a favorite for many of the crews. Out performs the A380 in many ways. But QA now lookin to phase them out with 787s and the 777X/A350 campaign will replace the rest– and perhaps one or two A380s.

Bogey

QA ?
Are you referring to Qantas ? … QF ?

They are now looking at A350-1000 for ULH flights

Quote:

Qantas has revealed that it will use the Airbus A350-1000 and not the Boeing 777X if it goes ahead with launching non-stop flights from New York and London to Sydney.

End quote.

JK
bogey 10
Post Take off checks
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:23 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by bogey 10 »

HJK 414 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:57 am
bogey 10 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:10 am
QA are still running 10 x 744's and remains a favorite for many of the crews. Out performs the A380 in many ways. But QA now lookin to phase them out with 787s and the 777X/A350 campaign will replace the rest– and perhaps one or two A380s.

Bogey

QA ?
Are you referring to Qantas ? … QF ?

They are now looking at A350-1000 for ULH flights

Quote:

Qantas has revealed that it will use the Airbus A350-1000 and not the Boeing 777X if it goes ahead with launching non-stop flights from New York and London to Sydney.

End quote.

JK
JK
Yep correction QF.
Sydney to London never doable with 744's
modify101
Priming
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:06 pm
Closest Airfield: FAWB
Location: Pretoria
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 0

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by modify101 »

Where is the now ex ZS-SBK 744 ?
Interestingly my first flight ever was on ZS-SBK, I flew on the inaugural (Delta Code share) flight JHB-CPT-ATL via Fort Lauderdale (fuel top-up).
Disembarking on the return a week or so later, restored my love for aviation. To the crew of that flight - THANK YOU!

I found more history here: https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... tai/34210e
Last flight: 4h 27m total travel time
Status: Stored MHV

ANC
ANCHORAGE, AK
SATURDAY 03-JUL-2021
11:05AM AKDT

MHV
MOJAVE, CA
SATURDAY 03-JUL-2021
04:32PM PDT
Last edited by modify101 on Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ZS-LBU M20J - FAWB
Michael Scott
Trent772B
Flying to unmanned aerodrome
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:27 pm
Closest Airfield: Cape Town
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 254 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by Trent772B »

bogey 10 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:10 am
CockpitCat wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:48 am I assume the 777 is more economical/efficient compared to the 747? If that is the case, why is BA still using the 747?
QA are still running 10 x 744's and remains a favorite for many of the crews. Out performs the A380 in many ways. But QA now lookin to phase them out with 787s and the 777X/A350 campaign will replace the rest– and perhaps one or two A380s.
How does the B744 out perform the A380?
These users thanked the author Trent772B for the post (total 2):
Jedi PirateMadMacs
B722, B744, A320, A332, A333, A342, A343, A346, A359, Alo3, Oryx, King Air, Beech 1900, T6
User avatar
ACE MAN
Fower Tousand
Fower Tousand
Posts: 4730
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:53 am
Closest Airfield: FAKT+VHHH+FAPX
Location: iKhaya mina 22N114E
Has thanked: 1352 times
Been thanked: 526 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by ACE MAN »

Trent772B wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:22 pm
bogey 10 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:10 am
CockpitCat wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:48 am I assume the 777 is more economical/efficient compared to the 747? If that is the case, why is BA still using the 747?
QA are still running 10 x 744's and remains a favorite for many of the crews. Out performs the A380 in many ways. But QA now lookin to phase them out with 787s and the 777X/A350 campaign will replace the rest– and perhaps one or two A380s.
How does the B744 out perform the A380?
Freight capacity?
IITYWTMWYBMAD
Nomakhanjani
¯¯VAF¯¯
Jedi Pirate
Power off stall
Posts: 337
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:28 am
Location: here & there
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by Jedi Pirate »

ACE MAN wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:29 pm
Trent772B wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:22 pm
bogey 10 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:10 am

QA are still running 10 x 744's and remains a favorite for many of the crews. Out performs the A380 in many ways. But QA now lookin to phase them out with 787s and the 777X/A350 campaign will replace the rest– and perhaps one or two A380s.
How does the B744 out perform the A380?
Freight capacity?
well one good example is how Lufthansa stopped flying 380's into JNB and changed to 747-8i's. The dash 8 is a far better performer out of hot & high airfields than any other production jet. Unfortunately for the queen it's too much of a niche to be commercially successful - especially against the 777 & 350.

Cathay wished they had bought some -8's to replace the 400 on their JNB-HKG route as the 777 capacity to carry a full pax load + cargo paled in comparison to the -8 but they just couldn't justify it for a only a handful of routes.
Live forever.............or die trying.
Trent772B
Flying to unmanned aerodrome
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:27 pm
Closest Airfield: Cape Town
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 254 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by Trent772B »

ACE MAN wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:29 pm
Trent772B wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:22 pm
bogey 10 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:10 am

QA are still running 10 x 744's and remains a favorite for many of the crews. Out performs the A380 in many ways. But QA now lookin to phase them out with 787s and the 777X/A350 campaign will replace the rest– and perhaps one or two A380s.
How does the B744 out perform the A380?
Freight capacity?
That’s probably the only factor. I loved flying the B744, but let’s be honest, technology has moved on. Even the A380 is now old tech, but filled with 500 pax, it’s an amazing machine.
B722, B744, A320, A332, A333, A342, A343, A346, A359, Alo3, Oryx, King Air, Beech 1900, T6
User avatar
ACE MAN
Fower Tousand
Fower Tousand
Posts: 4730
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:53 am
Closest Airfield: FAKT+VHHH+FAPX
Location: iKhaya mina 22N114E
Has thanked: 1352 times
Been thanked: 526 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by ACE MAN »

Jedi Pirate wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:42 pm
ACE MAN wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:29 pm
Trent772B wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:22 pm

How does the B744 out perform the A380?
Freight capacity?
well one good example is how Lufthansa stopped flying 380's into JNB and changed to 747-8i's. The dash 8 is a far better performer out of hot & high airfields than any other production jet. Unfortunately for the queen it's too much of a niche to be commercially successful - especially against the 777 & 350.

Cathay wished they had bought some -8's to replace the 400 on their JNB-HKG route as the 777 capacity to carry a full pax load + cargo paled in comparison to the -8 but they just couldn't justify it for a only a handful of routes.
I operated that 773ER for quite a few years on that route and it performed really well, 340pax and 8T cargo at worst case at around 29deg C out of JNB ( only time we couldn’t get pax on was due to their low priority ticketing with high priority freight - worst case we stop Over in BKK for tech fuel stop- 1Hr30 longer on the travel time but at least all your bags arrive with you and no one gets left behind). No Airbus can do that to HKG. The -8 freighter is just a phenomenal machine when it comes to hauling freight. I have no experience to comment on the -8i, but it would be great, just came at a wrong time as long thin routes have no place for four engines.

Edit to say, when we did the A346’s , ours were of the first and heavy , they carried around 295-315 iirc and could only do the pax and their bags - no freight.
These users thanked the author ACE MAN for the post:
dollar
IITYWTMWYBMAD
Nomakhanjani
¯¯VAF¯¯
evanb
Too Tousand
Too Tousand
Posts: 2755
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:58 pm
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 792 times

Re: Queen of the skies just keeps on flying!

Unread post by evanb »

Jedi Pirate wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:42 pm well one good example is how Lufthansa stopped flying 380's into JNB and changed to 747-8i's. The dash 8 is a far better performer out of hot & high airfields than any other production jet. Unfortunately for the queen it's too much of a niche to be commercially successful - especially against the 777 & 350.

Cathay wished they had bought some -8's to replace the 400 on their JNB-HKG route as the 777 capacity to carry a full pax load + cargo paled in comparison to the -8 but they just couldn't justify it for a only a handful of routes.
Well, it's notable that Cathay could have acquired B747-8s to replace the B747-400s but chose not to. They even have 14 B747-8 freighters, so they could even have had a rather small B747-8 passenger fleet without the additional costs of a new or additional fleet type. So if anything, it was an explicit choice and far from a position of "they wished".

While the B747-8 and A380 are great lifters (B747-8 optimized for a great passenger/cargo mix, and the A380 optimized for a bigger passenger load) they are ultimately niche machines. They have only done well for airlines that need it to fill a niche. For example, Emirates the A380 love it because capacity can be more important than frequency for them on many routes, and they operate into a large number of slot controlled airports (e.g. LHR), frequency limited environments (e.g. Germany) or ultra long haul routes where frequency holds less advantage (e.g. Australia). BA like the A380 too since it really helps them on high volume routes where they don't frequency provides them with little benefit (e.g. SIN, JNB, LAX) and can save slots those LHR slots.

Why a lot of airlines shied away from the B747-8 and A380 was that it reduced their flexibility. Given that HKIA promised Cathay to rid themselves of the capacity constraints of Chek Lap Kok (albeit, it seems to have just kicked the can down the road a few decades), they chose a fleet that gave them more flexibility. However, given the delays in the third runway, maybe they'll regret that decision.

Return to “Airline Chatter”