Cropsprayer and Cessna mid-air collision Carltonville

[Agrilight@Gfs21#]

Moderators Message:

Reference to incorrect event

[SimplyFly]

The accidents under discussion remind me of two sayings that I gleened from two wise old instructors when I was a wide-eyed student pilot:

"Confine yourself to the things that other people have done many times. When you deviate from those - congratulations, you have just become a test pilot!"

"Showing off requires one essential ingredient: spectators".

Simpli

[Wildcat_004]

You cannot fly “merrily along with eyes in front” whilst in formation and still be taking photos or video. Not possible.

[savas]

You cannot fly “merrily along with eyes in front” whilst in formation and still be taking photos or video. Not possible.

You forgot the main ingredient - Low Level

[117]

You cannot fly “merrily along with eyes in front” whilst in formation and still be taking photos or video. Not possible.

No, i never said that. I suggested the pilot flying the 182 was merrily flying along and the pax was viewing things through a lens, which gave the pax no perspective of the events that unfolded and probably could not identify the situation to alert the pilot

I didnt mention formation either

[jimdavis]

quote=GL post_id=2307630 time=1704189107 user_id=998]
IF - one a/c was formating on the other - then there needed to be a designated leader.
[/quote]

And therein lies the problem. Logically, the cropsprayer would be the leader and the Cessna would formate in him. But this doesn't make for a good camera angle. If the camera is behind the cropsprayer you don't get a good shot. Ideally you want to be looking back at the cropsprayer - but that makes the Cessna the leader. This of course doesn't work and I suspect this may have been at the bottom of their problem.

jim

[biffvj]

It could also have been a medical incident on either side.

[Fransw]

What a tragedy!

From what i heard the Cessna 182 flew directly above the crop sprayer to take pics. The sprayer then pulled up like only a crop sprayer could and hit the C182... a tragic accident on his second last crop sprayer flight!

[Tallies]

What a tragedy!

From what i heard the Cessna 182 flew directly above the crop sprayer to take pics. The sprayer then pulled up like only a crop sprayer could and hit the C182... a tragic accident on his second last crop sprayer flight!

And there in lies the problem. A great pull up presents a great photo opportunity which I suspect was the cause of this accident. I would also speculate that it was planned not considering the Ag aerie would slow down in forward speed whilst the 182 would continue with its normal forward speed. I would also speculate that this was on the passenger’s side. Sad and unnecessary.

[Chris-Cub]

The 1-2-3 second reflex thing after a problem observed by your senses, and reflexes kicks in.

I watched recently some looks like Russion car sliding accidents where the driver slides, overcorrects, run into a wall on highway, and then everytime it bounces back it seems to comes right at another innocent driver, and surprisingly this driver's reaction is to go right, and meet up with the coming out of control car, and just cannot miss it as a result. In my opinion that was an incorrect reflex 1-2-3 seconds, its as if the driver was locked in on the travelling path of the car after it hit the wall and bounce back following him. In my opinion one never actually properly think about this and then you faced with it one day, no practice in that regard, and your reflexes may be wrong.

I know this was about cars not planes, but I just want you to think a bit more about reflexes(1-2-3) & accidents, excluding those that there were no sensing and just a blind hit, like on cellphone/distracted. If you start looking at accidents with reflexes in mind from that perspective, your outlook may change about the whole accident scenario anywhere around anything we deal with.

I managed to change two reflexes that bothered me in my life:
1-Where you injure your heal(Foot) stepping in an uneven hole on the ground. After the reflex was settled in my body it never happened so far in my life again after many years.
2-The steer left go right thing on a motorcycle.....Long story,... no short cuts... after the reflex was settled in my body it really saved my life on a few occations........It's not about racing or how you steer(You can do what you want if you can maintain full concious control) when fully not in a reflex state of 1-2-3 seconds.

In my opinion this is one of the reasons why very experienced people get killed not expected. If you experienced & trained like racers, you will not go into a reflex condition as soon than an ordinary person given the same experience, however when that condition kicks in, you are not your normal you anymore(can be very experienced) for a short time, and that maybe a problem not properly looked at deep enough yet.

This is just an opinion I gave a lot of thought over many years..........My 1st natural right reflex was probably a hot stove as a child but thats very basic.

[Colin4112]

What a tragedy!

From what i heard the Cessna 182 flew directly above the crop sprayer to take pics. The sprayer then pulled up like only a crop sprayer could and hit the C182... a tragic accident on his second last crop sprayer flight!

Second last crop sprayer flight? Was Hennie retiring?

[Fransw]

What a tragedy!

From what i heard the Cessna 182 flew directly above the crop sprayer to take pics. The sprayer then pulled up like only a crop sprayer could and hit the C182... a tragic accident on his second last crop sprayer flight!

Second last crop sprayer flight? Was Hennie retiring?

apparently? Not confirmed though.....

[Sardine]

We can't continue learning from same mistakes - cause then we are not learning anything therefore it's all in vain.

Savas, I don't understand what you are saying here. We absolutely MUST learn from the mistakes of others. Otherwise we are doomed to make them ourselves.

And this is indeed what happens - time and again.

jim

The same mistakes keep being repeated .
Impossible turns, scud running, impromptu formation, to name but a few.

CAA is driving costs up and creating more and more rules and regulations, but aviation isn't becoming any safer. It is becoming more accessible with more and more "sausage factory" schools popping up where the aim is money rather than quality instruction.

Not everyone is cut out to be a pilot. You can learn the hands on skills required, but it also takes a certain attitude.
Today's culture is largely "ag shame, let's push them through", and you can't do that all the time.

I know how difficult it is to wash a student. I have done it as a young, 21 year old instructor. But it's certainly not a decision I regret.

I'm not saying that that relates to this accident, but that I agree with Savas... History keeps repeating itself. The question is why.

[Lood]

It’s just human nature and it won’t change.

In fact, as we humans evolve and conquer more and more of this world, in so many ways, we also seem to own more and more of an invincible attitude.

Many “old pilots”, who were nowhere near the current scene of aviation training, for instance, also fall victim to the same traps.
History will keep on repeating itself.

[henniewillemse]

It’s just human nature and it won’t change.

In fact, as we humans evolve and conquer more and more of this world, in so many ways, we also seem to own more and more of an invisible attitude.

Many “old pilots”, who were nowhere near the current scene of aviation training, for instance, also fall victim to the same traps.
History will keep on repeating itself.

Well said Lood.