SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Fransw »

Fransw wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:26 pm Good for them if our guys are looking for better opportunities!

Asking out of interest( just a weekend kamikaze)

Are there many/good opportunities in India?
This must be the answer to that question!
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by IKTAV »

For anyone interested in the results from the Airline Pilot Exodus survey, here are the results.
Please draw your own conclusions.


https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM ... 3GQ_3D_3D/
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Piperdriver »

Having made the move to the ME 2 years ago, my family and I have never been happier.
The most important thing here is to choose an airline that will suit your circumstances,
Do you want to fly the long haul shiney jet? Then expect to be away from home more often and learn to deal with the effects of long and ultra long haul travel in your body(especially for the folks over 50) there are a lot of people who love this lifestyle and a decent stretch at one of these companies will leave you better off than joining one of the 320 or 737 operators in the region.

For those who want to spend most of their time at home and fly turnarounds then then one of the 737 or 320 operators will probably suit better. The undeniable benefit of these companies is the time to command is much shorter which means you pay goes up a lot in a much shorter space of time than in the long haul carriers.

Like I said cash wise, the provident fund the long haul carrier offer will leave u with more cash in the long term, but u will have to live in company accommodation which has its pros and cons.

The 737/320 option will give u more freedom in terms of lifestyle choices (where u want to live) and you can put your accommodation allowance to whatever use u want. But then u have to drive to work!

The company I am with has paid us a good bonus for the last two financial years, doubt this will happen every year but it’s a nice bump up to the monthly savings I put away. We also receive an education allowance per child up to 21 which has helped a lot of folks out their kids through university as well.

Whether you like living in SA or abroad, the reality is you will work hard regardless, there is no free lunch anywhere, but the question you have to ask yourself is what financial shape will you be in when you retire! Also what kind of education can you afford to offer your kids to give them the best start in life?

Do we miss SA, damn sure! U can’t beat the lifestyle this country provides, fortunately we can visit as often as we want to, thanks mainly to a very good staff travel set up that makes leisure travel very affordable, even in business class.
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Flugmaour »

Piperdriver wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:54 am U can’t beat the lifestyle this country provides,
Very true. One of the reasons we returned from the ME a couple of years ago. We made the decision and believe that you need to live in the present moment as well. From a lifestyle point of view SA is still fantastic and we want to enjoy it on a daily basis and not only visit every now and then. (Although you do need to keep the back door open just in case...)

I agree the money pot will look better long term when working abroad, however with careful financial planning one will be ok as well working locally in SA. It all depends what you want in life. I believe in balance - Plan well for retirement but enjoy the present moment as well. Live within your means with little to no debt.

As for the local airlines - Yes, we are limited with choice. Yes we work hard, but you will work hard anywhere in the world. Do I enjoy it? Of course I do. I wouldn't trade it for anything else.
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Nicolaas206 »

I don’t really agree with working hard anywhere in the world. I go to work once a week, “working” 80 hours a month of which half is sleeping in the bunk and minimum 2 weeks off.
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Flugmaour »

Nicolaas206 wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:31 pm I don’t really agree with working hard anywhere in the world. I go to work once a week, “working” 80 hours a month of which half is sleeping in the bunk and minimum 2 weeks off.
Depends what floats your boat. Been there, done that, not for me anymore thanks 8)

Everyone's circumstances are different. I prefer to sleep in my own bed every night, not being jet lagged all the time and being able to see my kids grow up.

To get back to the point of this thread. The "mass exodus" as some are calling it is not quite the "exodus" some are trying to make it out to be. Most of the guys that wanted to leave already left. Most guys I share the flight deck with are all pretty content at the moment in SA. It really ain't that bad.
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Piperdriver »

Judging by the number of folks who contact me for info and advice on passing the interview at my company, I’m not sure I agree. A week never goes by without us seeing a mate or someone you once worked with in town attending an interview. I know of a number of Saffas who are in my organisations’s holding pool, waiting for a start date. The flow is steady, definitely not a flood but it’s continuous.

We had a presentation from our head of operations recently where there was a slide about which countries are our crew from, SA is third currently and the fastest growing group by percentage, if u include the saffas here in other passports then we are probably the second biggest group.
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Nicolaas206 »

Flugmaour wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:42 pm
Nicolaas206 wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:31 pm I don’t really agree with working hard anywhere in the world. I go to work once a week, “working” 80 hours a month of which half is sleeping in the bunk and minimum 2 weeks off.
Depends what floats your boat. Been there, done that, not for me anymore thanks 8)

Everyone's circumstances are different. I prefer to sleep in my own bed every night, not being jet lagged all the time and being able to see my kids grow up.

To get back to the point of this thread. The "mass exodus" as some are calling it is not quite the "exodus" some are trying to make it out to be. Most of the guys that wanted to leave already left. Most guys I share the flight deck with are all pretty content at the moment in SA. It really ain't that bad.
Not sure what your patronizing personal preference has to do with the point I was making about not everyone having to work hard, but hey, good for you!

Your last paragraph is also simply not true and swimming upstream against everything that has been witnessed in this thread about the number of people leaving.
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Flugmaour »

Nicolaas206 wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:43 am
Your last paragraph is also simply not true and swimming upstream against everything that has been witnessed in this thread about the number of people leaving.

Have you seen any actual stats or numbers in order to prove that my paragraph is "not true"?? Highly doubt you have.

I've seen it, I work with it but don't let the actual facts now spoil a good story. Just because a few expat pilots contributed to this thread does not mean the "exodus" as you all like to call it is fact.

If you look at historical trends over the years there have always been movement abroad. It happens everywhere in every country. I don't deny the fact that some guys are leaving. It is just not at the rate that some guys are trying to make it out to be.
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by NineThreeKilo »

Piperdriver wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:54 am Having made the move to the ME 2 years ago, my family and I have never been happier.
The most important thing here is to choose an airline that will suit your circumstances,
Do you want to fly the long haul shiney jet? Then expect to be away from home more often and learn to deal with the effects of long and ultra long haul travel in your body(especially for the folks over 50) there are a lot of people who love this lifestyle and a decent stretch at one of these companies will leave you better off than joining one of the 320 or 737 operators in the region.

For those who want to spend most of their time at home and fly turnarounds then then one of the 737 or 320 operators will probably suit better. The undeniable benefit of these companies is the time to command is much shorter which means you pay goes up a lot in a much shorter space of time than in the long haul carriers.

Like I said cash wise, the provident fund the long haul carrier offer will leave u with more cash in the long term, but u will have to live in company accommodation which has its pros and cons.

The 737/320 option will give u more freedom in terms of lifestyle choices (where u want to live) and you can put your accommodation allowance to whatever use u want. But then u have to drive to work!

The company I am with has paid us a good bonus for the last two financial years, doubt this will happen every year but it’s a nice bump up to the monthly savings I put away. We also receive an education allowance per child up to 21 which has helped a lot of folks out their kids through university as well.

Whether you like living in SA or abroad, the reality is you will work hard regardless, there is no free lunch anywhere, but the question you have to ask yourself is what financial shape will you be in when you retire! Also what kind of education can you afford to offer your kids to give them the best start in life?

Do we miss SA, damn sure! U can’t beat the lifestyle this country provides, fortunately we can visit as often as we want to, thanks mainly to a very good staff travel set up that makes leisure travel very affordable, even in business class.


I would also add that being away from the wife for half a month and then having the other half where you can go on adventures and have fun with here is WAAAAY better than being home every night when it comes to the health of a relationship

Being around family too much is not healthy
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by SandPiper »

NineThreeKilo wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:46 pm
I would also add that being away from the wife for half a month and then having the other half where you can go on adventures and have fun with here is WAAAAY better than being home every night when it comes to the health of a relationship

Being around family too much is not healthy
Absolutely.
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Nicolaas206 »

Flugmaour wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 8:46 pm
Nicolaas206 wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:43 am
Your last paragraph is also simply not true and swimming upstream against everything that has been witnessed in this thread about the number of people leaving.

Have you seen any actual stats or numbers in order to prove that my paragraph is "not true"?? Highly doubt you have.

I've seen it, I work with it but don't let the actual facts now spoil a good story. Just because a few expat pilots contributed to this thread does not mean the "exodus" as you all like to call it is fact.

If you look at historical trends over the years there have always been movement abroad. It happens everywhere in every country. I don't deny the fact that some guys are leaving. It is just not at the rate that some guys are trying to make it out to be.
No I have not seen the stats. I can only go on the fact that literally every airline pilot I know in SA is looking to or has already left. Sure, it might be because we are all in similar age bracket for the typical migration, and I guess there are older folks who've decided to move back to SA.

If you have the stats then why not share it with us and tell us where you get it from for legitimacy?
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Mouser »

Nicolaas206 wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:13 am
Flugmaour wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 8:46 pm
Nicolaas206 wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:43 am
Your last paragraph is also simply not true and swimming upstream against everything that has been witnessed in this thread about the number of people leaving.

Have you seen any actual stats or numbers in order to prove that my paragraph is "not true"?? Highly doubt you have.

I've seen it, I work with it but don't let the actual facts now spoil a good story. Just because a few expat pilots contributed to this thread does not mean the "exodus" as you all like to call it is fact.

If you look at historical trends over the years there have always been movement abroad. It happens everywhere in every country. I don't deny the fact that some guys are leaving. It is just not at the rate that some guys are trying to make it out to be.
No I have not seen the stats. I can only go on the fact that literally every airline pilot I know in SA is looking to or has already left. Sure, it might be because we are all in similar age bracket for the typical migration, and I guess there are older folks who've decided to move back to SA.

If you have the stats then why not share it with us and tell us where you get it from for legitimacy?
I can believe it as it is upward progression generally with some (I know one) accelerated by bad personal experiences. But it is only a problem if there isn't a pipeline of suitable replacements coming through?
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by Sanddweller »

By the way, Air Japan is looking at doing a roadshow in SA for NTR B787 pilots for a commuting contract.. Options are definetly opening up..
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Re: SA airline pilot mass exodus in 2024?

Unread post by BKN »

Burner wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:55 pm SA is being hit twice as hard as the rest of the world. Lots of folk leaving SA seeking better long term futures, AND the industry isn't what it used to be. Its a heck of a hard job, irregular hours, constant pressure to pass medicals/OPCs/exams etc, and very average pay. There are a lot better jobs that will give you a more stable lifestyle, better paycheck, and the ability to have school holidays off. Air travel is cheaper and more accessible than ever, and ticket prices reflect that... here in Europe everyone wants August off to go on holiday and sip cocktails on the beach. The problem is no one wants to load the bags, man the Xray machines, fly the planes, pour the cocktails, etc.
100%, Just the other day I was talking to my better half about my “dream job” that I worked hard to get and now wonder why I’m still in it. In the past the effort you put in was compensated with very good salaries and pilots for major airlines would live decent lives, however the current market is all about cost cutting and the cost they seem to be cutting the most is pilot salaries. My life revolves around aviation now even on days off I’m thinking about upcoming checks, medicals so need to watch what I eat make sure I get my exercise in (possibly a positive), or what ever exam slash conversion the airline wants you to do next. This constant pressure and work load was negated in the past with the salary you got but I feel recently with increase in salaries in other the jobs the consistent time off (working normal hours and actually being awake when your kids and other people are) is very appealing now and the aviation work/life/pay scale has tipped from being a great job (somewhat repetitive), with pay that made sense when considering time and effort put in to an ok job where your time and effort is not properly rewarded. Try putting the effort aviation takes into anything else and see what the rewards are like.

The current aviation market is a completely different beast I look at the guys about to retire here and they talk about how much they use to earn and you just wonder what the hell happened.

This maybe an Airline complaint, I do still reminisce about flying turbo props around Africa, that was great flying however very badly compensated but my days off were my own and the study factor was a lot lower.

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