Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
I'm curious, so do these rules only apply to airlines (specifically domestic airline services) - or any aviation charter company who may own/lease hypothetically 3 x B737s or 3 x A220s also?
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
This issue has been popping up in the news often the past week.
Safair is saying these accusations are false and that the competitors are trying to scare people off from buying tickets with them. If that is the case, and gets proven to be the case, shame on those airlines.
We like Safair and fly with them often, their schedule and prices suite us. They are always on time, mostly even early, and the service is normally good.
The Doc that does my flight medical every year, is a Captain with them. Without them there will be many local pilots out of work and ticket prices would rise. Not something we can afford.
Whirly.
Safair is saying these accusations are false and that the competitors are trying to scare people off from buying tickets with them. If that is the case, and gets proven to be the case, shame on those airlines.

We like Safair and fly with them often, their schedule and prices suite us. They are always on time, mostly even early, and the service is normally good.
The Doc that does my flight medical every year, is a Captain with them. Without them there will be many local pilots out of work and ticket prices would rise. Not something we can afford.
Whirly.
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- Capt. Kyle • skydancer
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
Snoopy - the rules (Air Services Licencing Act and the International Air Services Licencing Act) apply to all South African-domiciled commercial operators of any air service. This includes airlines, crop-sprayers, charters, etc. Essentially any commercial aviation service for which a domestic or international licence is required.snoopy wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 1:32 pm I'm curious, so do these rules only apply to airlines (specifically domestic airline services) - or any aviation charter company who may own/lease hypothetically 3 x B737s or 3 x A220s also?
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
Safair is an Irish owned and controlled company masquerading as an SA owned company.
Below is an extract from the most recent available audited financial statements of ASL Holdings. Its seems Safair is not being completely forthright in their statements. I suppose in SA to be caught breaking the law and then to try lie your way out of it is a common approach.
Obviously this is the second time the ownership question has been raised with Safair. My opinion is that they are unlikely to survive this.
Below is an extract from the most recent available audited financial statements of ASL Holdings. Its seems Safair is not being completely forthright in their statements. I suppose in SA to be caught breaking the law and then to try lie your way out of it is a common approach.
Obviously this is the second time the ownership question has been raised with Safair. My opinion is that they are unlikely to survive this.
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
“Aviation is the branch of engineering that is least forgiving of mistakes.”
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
Wow, the level of conjecture and innuendo in that interview is surpassed by none.
Painful to listen to.
Painful to listen to.
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
Jeez this guy has a lot of nerve giving an interview like that and making what he even says are unsubstantiated claims but just his ‘gut feel.’ He should look at himself and the safety standards of his own airline not too mention his involvement in the Chieftain crash all those years ago.
Or perhaps give a course in Sour Grapes 101.
Or perhaps give a course in Sour Grapes 101.
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
Ya, someone should have tipped Alec off and asked him to ask Miles what is "fishing leave" at Cemair.Flaps Up1 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 2:26 pm Jeez this guy has a lot of nerve giving an interview like that and making what he even says are unsubstantiated claims but just his ‘gut feel.’ He should look at himself and the safety standards of his own airline not too mention his involvement in the Chieftain crash all those years ago.
Or perhaps give a course in Sour Grapes 101.
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
well clearly the local ownership model isn't working, and the industry keeps eating itself with not enough capital injection.
FSA is clearly successful with the way they are doing things, its currently the best airline in the country...
open it up, get some fresh capital into our ailing economy
CemAir and Others can go to the capital markets and expand their businesses
SA consumer wins.
FSA is clearly successful with the way they are doing things, its currently the best airline in the country...
open it up, get some fresh capital into our ailing economy
CemAir and Others can go to the capital markets and expand their businesses
SA consumer wins.
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
That sums it up completely .
Government keep talking about the need for foreign investment and then the put barriers to investment by restricting the percentage that the foreign investor may own in a local enterprise.- as little as 25% in the case of the airline industry.
Government keep talking about the need for foreign investment and then the put barriers to investment by restricting the percentage that the foreign investor may own in a local enterprise.- as little as 25% in the case of the airline industry.
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
Always fascinating on this forum to watch how different Airlines are treated. Safair is alleged to have broken the law for years and the response is "well the law sucks anyway and probably needs changing" - the response would probably be very different if it was another logo on the tail.
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
The only one I (and plenty others here) don't like is the one that wastes our hard earned tax money to keep afloat and operates above all laws.Tulca234 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:34 pm Always fascinating on this forum to watch how different Airlines are treated. Safair is alleged to have broken the law for years and the response is "well the law sucks anyway and probably needs changing" - the response would probably be very different if it was another logo on the tail.

I have no problem with an airline that subsidizes my flights (as claimed) with money from outside SA, and at the same time employs local pilots on experience. That is a no brainer.
Whirly.
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
I really hope worse doesn't come to worst. The last thing we need is another stain on the aviation sector.
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Re: Safair 'too big to ground'? Competitors cry foul over 'breach' of ownership laws, pricing
I think we all have that sick niggling feeling of how this will play out.
The sanction will be suspension of the licence - Safair stops international flights. Early December the Domestic council will find the same way and suspend the domestic licence. SAFAIR is effectively grounded indefinitely for the busy season. Helping primarily SAA increase market share. Whether Safair come back from this, I don’t know. The councils are government entities with a history of helping SAA. The playing field was never level.
I hope I’m wrong.
The sanction will be suspension of the licence - Safair stops international flights. Early December the Domestic council will find the same way and suspend the domestic licence. SAFAIR is effectively grounded indefinitely for the busy season. Helping primarily SAA increase market share. Whether Safair come back from this, I don’t know. The councils are government entities with a history of helping SAA. The playing field was never level.
I hope I’m wrong.
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