The Jabiru.......your opinions please

foxbat · Unread post by **foxbat** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:59 am

Hehe

Even the so-called "crotch throttle" kinda "grows on you"!
Could see there being some interesting moments when it comes to female students though

Unread post by **Steve** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:01 pm

jcvb wrote:
Although Jabiru SA developed a dual yoke option, CAA would not approve it for "factory produced aircraft" as it is not designed and tested by the Australian manufacturer....and training aircraft have to be "Factory produced"....
Sounds like 2 steps forward and seven back again? Was quiet looking forward to the yokes. The crotch throttle moving to the dash was a winner though....

Once used to it, the crotch throttle is really comfortable to fly.....and saves whacking your knee on aircraft, entry / exit as with the panel mount throttle...

raptor · Unread post by **raptor** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:28 pm

OK my two cents worth. I did a lot of research in the hope I could own an Jabiru at one stage.
1) Engine faliures on earlier Jabs, were caused by burnt exhaust valves due to a failed exhaust manifold to exhaust gasket. Later models / fix removed this gasket completely.
2) Nose wheel problems, have been addressed with the newer aircraft, and different landing gear can be ordered. So possibly the other member had to light a landing gear on his Jab.
3) I am not a small man, but found the seating in front comfortably and somewhat sports car like.
4) As for the yoke in the center. It was like flying the similator. I also grew up with C150s and the like, and found the throttle and yoke positioning a good choice. IF one considers all modern aircraft (Airbus, etc) they are coming out with joysticks.
5) Handling on the landing and take, was excellent. Now on comparison to earlier model J400's, there were marked differences, so it is like buying a car. Each year the model improves.

The metal heads complain about plastic aeries. Well I wonder if the same argument was had when moving from wood to metal.

Now I will shut up.

Blue Pilot · Unread post by **Blue Pilot** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:31 pm

"crotch throttle" kinda "grows on you"

raptor · Unread post by **raptor** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm

Maybe thats why I liked it. The purrrrfect aircraft for perverts.

Unread post by **Steve** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:39 pm

raptor wrote:OK my two cents worth. I did a lot of research in the hope I could own an Jabiru at one stage.
1) Engine faliures on earlier Jabs, were caused by burnt exhaust valves due to a failed exhaust manifold to exhaust gasket. Later models / fix removed this gasket completely.
2) Nose wheel problems, have been addressed with the newer aircraft, and different landing gear can be ordered. So possibly the other member had to light a landing gear on his Jab.
3) I am not a small man, but found the seating in front comfortably and somewhat sports car like.
4) As for the yoke in the center. It was like flying the similator. I also grew up with C150s and the like, and found the throttle and yoke positioning a good choice. IF one considers all modern aircraft (Airbus, etc) they are coming out with joysticks.
5) Handling on the landing and take, was excellent. Now on comparison to earlier model J400's, there were marked differences, so it is like buying a car. Each year the model improves.

The metal heads complain about plastic aeries. Well I wonder if the same argument was had when moving from wood to metal.

Now I will shut up.

Raptor, I wish that more Avcomer's who comment on the Jabiru would actually investigate matters first hand for themselves....Like yourself....

When I first saw the Jabiru, I was against composites (mindset)...then when they brought out the 4 seat version I was dead against it....and found all sorts of reasons to critisize it....

When my neighbour wanted to upgrade from the 2 seat to 4 seat Jab and asked my opinion regarding safety, etc...to take his family, etc....I decided to do it justice and to do my homework properly....

I covered all the aspects and points that you raised above and even went to George and took the factory demo plane for a thorough test flight (ask their test pilot - he kept commenting that he has never had someone put their plane thru such stringent paces before) In the end, I was more than satisfied with the performance, stall characteristics and handling....These aircraft are extremely safe and forgiving.....

Any piece of engineering goes through an evolutionary stage and yes, later models got stronger undercarriages, better oil coolers, etc...etc...

The significant advantage is initial cost of ownership and thereafter operating expenses. If you want to fly a lot, then you need a platform that is cost effective to fly....

At the end of the day, I was significantly impressed that I decided to buy one too.....and have not been sorry....120kts on 19l/h still brings on a smile with a 4 seater that due to composite weight does not attract ATNS charges in controlled airspace, etc...etc...etc....

If the tin pushing Avcomer's ignore the financial aspect, then why are they flying J3 cubs instead of P51 mustangs? MONEY, of course !!!!

Challenge to all Avcomer's : If you haven't flown in a Jabi, get hold of someone who owns one and go for a ride - it will change your perception...

Chris · Unread post by **Chris** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:47 pm

Agreed - the Jabiru took a lot of flack because of teething troubles in the beginning. All these have been resolved.

For a small 4 seater I would like to see a comparison between the Jab and a C172 and a PA28-140. It would be interesting to get the perspective between a new aircraft and a 25 year old one from a capital and operating cost point of view.

Pheeew - we must stop giving the flying mag editors all these ideas.

Unread post by **Steve** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:03 pm

Chris wrote:Agreed - the Jabiru took a lot of flack because of teething troubles in the beginning. All these have been resolved.

For a small 4 seater I would like to see a comparison between the Jab and a C172 and a PA28-140. It would be interesting to get the perspective between a new aircraft and a 25 year old one from a capital and operating cost point of view.

Pheeew - we must stop giving the flying mag editors all these ideas.

Hi Chris....

Have a look.... http://www.jabiru.co.uk/J400comparison.htm

Kitplanes magazine (July 2003) says:

“Although the J400 may be smaller than a Cessna 172, it will lift the same load off a shorter runway. It climbs more steeply, goes faster, handles more responsively and lands shorter. It also costs less than half as much.”

Chris · Unread post by **Chris** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:10 pm

Great site - except we would have to do some running cost comparatives.

A general comment (not only Jabiru) it that the composite aircraft manufacturers are looking at geeting the best performance out of lower HP motors ie very slippery aircraft. Is there one out there that could replace a C152 for training where you would be very happy to give up some performance for some natural stability. In most (not all) circumstances a C152 will stabilise if the hand are taken off the controls. That is what you want in a training aircraft (plus strong undercarraige)

George · Unread post by **George** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:11 pm

Chris,

Did exersize last year when bought RV.

Of the older blik aeries, the Cherokee 180 was in my opinion the best buy in the used certified market if you could find one. When comparing the jabi to the older certifieds (C172, PA28, etc), the jabi wins hands down in almost all departments. It will go further for less money and is easier to maintain and although the spares are AU$ dollar linked the local backup is excellent.
Couple issues;

resale

crotch throttle (I quiet like it)

single stick (grows on you like mould)

flaps (been resolved)

undercarrage on rough strips or in training environment (time will tell, but is apparently betta) &

composite life span if exposed to sun for long periods

On resale, the cheap cost of ownership will more than offset any potential "losses" which may occur at time of sale. If in it for short term stint the older certifieds are easier to move.

On composite exposure to elements time will tell...

my 2c

PS
Still looking for syndicate members for new J400/J430 to be based Panorama or surrounds

Unread post by **Steve** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:15 pm

Chris wrote: In most (not all) circumstances a C152 will stabilise if the hand are taken off the controls. That is what you want in a training aircraft (plus strong undercarraige)

The Jabiru J430 with winglets is designed specifically for training purposes....
http://www.jabiru.co.za

DELETED · Unread post by **DELETED** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:58 pm

DELETED

bearman · Unread post by **bearman** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:15 pm

FAWG Pilot wrote: If the tin pushing Avcomer's ignore the financial aspect, then why are they flying J3 cubs instead of P51 mustangs? MONEY, of course !!!!

Challenge to all Avcomer's : If you haven't flown in a Jabi, get hold of someone who owns one and go for a ride - it will change your perception...

Well why are you plastic promoters not flying Stealth Fighter's - well MONEY of course !!!! Come now WG you can come up with a better argument I know you can.

Plus for your information the cub is not made of Tin It is made of "STEEL" yeh baby!!! Covered with a bit of nice fabric finished in a lovely yellow. Flies better than any Jab could hope to fly and on 65hp yeh 65 - A real Aeroplane - For a real aviation experience!

Now for some honesty! Would fly a Jab but don't fit into it that well.

Unread post by **Steve** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:52 pm

bearman wrote:
FAWG Pilot wrote: If the tin pushing Avcomer's ignore the financial aspect, then why are they flying J3 cubs instead of P51 mustangs? MONEY, of course !!!!

Challenge to all Avcomer's : If you haven't flown in a Jabi, get hold of someone who owns one and go for a ride - it will change your perception...
Well why are you plastic promoters not flying Stealth Fighter's - well MONEY of course !!!! Come now WG you can come up with a better argument I know you can.

Plus for your information the cub is not made of Tin It is made of "STEEL" yeh baby!!! Covered with a bit of nice fabric finished in a lovely yellow. Flies better than any Jab could hope to fly and on 65hp yeh 65 - A real Aeroplane - For a real aviation experience!

Now for some honesty! Would fly a Jab but don't fit into it that well.

The new fighter jet in the USA is made largely from Composits...

Okay, Bearman...me thinks it is time that you came for a flight in the Jab to see for yourself...are you up to it?

George · Unread post by **George** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:08 pm

bearman wrote:Now for some honesty! Would fly a Jab but don't fit into it that well.

PROGRESS