Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

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Snoopy
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by Snoopy » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:15 am

Guess the owl of Minerva got lost in this cacophony then...no wonder I fell asleep during this program....boring stuff.

Maybe he'll also get a publisher and write a book like so many other wannabees did ...."The long road to nowhere" :idea:
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by Philip Foglar » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:46 am

Hi guys,

Sorry, haven't had change to say hi - joined just other day.

So I gather this was as I expected, another propaganda based documentary on SABC - that's why I didn't bother watching it. I don't actually know all that much about this incident, but I get the impression that it was a straight forward plane crash (pilot error) that was turned into a politically motivated apartheid thing. Will leave it at that since as I said, don't really know too much about this crash...

Philip.
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by opsmike » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:52 am

Back in the 90's during the accident investigation course we used this accident as a practical exercise, and we came to the same conclusion as the board. These CCB guys were quite a clever bunch, they were well versed in the aviation industry :lol: they intercepted the flight plan, new the exact routing, got all the equipment out into the bush, switched it on at the right time and cut Maputo's power. :lol: :lol: :lol: a laugh a minute #-o #-o =D> =D>
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by soloflyer2002 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:54 am

Don't know if anyone else picked on this bit that still puzzles me
In the beginning of the show, they talk about an NDB - even the CVR playback mentions the pilot saying something about ther being no NDB
Next minute, pictures of a PVOR (Portable VOR?) is shown and discussed.
So, was it an NDB or VOR? :roll:
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by pongopilot » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:57 am

Got the following article via another source.

Translation of an artice that appeared in the newspaper Zambeze published in Maputo, 28 August 2008 page 2.
THE ACCIDENT AT MBUZINI

Sérgio Vieira Ordered Mozambique Airline Pilots to Remain Silent
by Luís Brito Dias
I read with great interest the statements of Mr Sérgio Vieira with respect to the accident at Mbuzini (O Pais, 15 August 2008), a subject of extraordinary interest to me as I was employed as a pilot for DETA/LAM (Mozambique Airlines) for 17 years. At the moment I am employed as a pilot in the Far East as a Captain flying Boeing 747-400 type aircraft. It is obvious that Mr Sérgio Vieira is lying shamelessly for, at the time of the accident, he was the Minister of Security and therefore responsible for what happened. Samora died an obscure death for which he was also responsible as he placed his life in the hands of pilots that turned out to be negligent and careless.
All the pilots that flew for Mozambique Airlines at the time know perfectly well that the accident at Mbuzini was due to negligence and carelessness on the part of the flying crew. Besides, after the accident, Mr Sergio Vieira sent a message to all the Mozambique Airlines (LAM) pilots, as a very clear threat, to “remain silent and not to open their mouth.” That was why no LAM Captain was appointed to participate in the Commission of Enquiry. The sole pilot was a LAM co-pilot, who had been in the Air Force and was a member of Frelimo and therefore “easily controllable”. This co-pilot began to see the disgusting nature of the Commission of Enquiry and arranged to be removed quickly as his conscience would not allow him to participate in the corruption of the truth.
The Soviet pilots, besides having little experience, flew very seldom. The pilot’s licences that were presented to the enquiry were false. They were issued posthumously.
At the time I was co-pipot of a DC-10 of the Mozambique Airlines. During a flight from Lisbon to Maputo the Captain and I demonstrated to Mariano Matsinhe and another Frelimo Minister that was on board, what had really happened. They were our guests in the cockpit. We even made the turn or the change from the initial course as well as the incorrect manipulation of the navigation instruments’ selectors to show them what had happened on the night of the Mbuzini accident.
Besides not having taken sufficient reserve fuel what happened was that, out of the 5 crew members in the cockpit, 3 were occupied in dividing up and drinking the leftover alcoholic beverages until 6 minutes before the final impact. Only the co-pilot and the navigator were “taking care” of the flight. All this was recorded on the CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder).
The Captain only realised that they were lost 3 minutes before the final impact. The confusion was so great that they paid no attention to the audio alarm (GPWS or Ground Proximity Warning Signal) that the aircaft was about to hit the ground without being in the configuration for landing. They broke many basic “golden rules” of flying, but the most critical was that, having arrived at the “safe altitude” published for Maputo as 3000 feet, they continued to descend without having visual contact with the ground or, alternatively, having the correct electronic indications of the Maputo navigation equipment. In this case the ILS (Instrument Landing System) or the VOR (VHF Omni-directional Range beacon) of Maputo. What ensued was that, instead of selecting the ILS for Maputo (110.3), they mistakenly selected the VOR of Matsapa (112.3) and they changed course for the Radial 045 of Matsapa instead of being on Radial 045 of the VOR of Maputo. The navigator of the Tupolev made the mistake, for, in the Russian system, the navigators select the radio guidance systems and not the pilots. He had already selected the VOR for Maputo (112.7), but in changing the frequency for the ILS of Maputo (110.3), which is a radio guidance system for approaching the runway and not a route navigation beacon, he committed the fatal error.
The knobs for selecting decimal points are independent of the knobs for selecting numbers in hundreds. In other words, firstly he had to change from 112 to 110 and after that from 0.7 to 0.3 with a separate and independent knob. What happened was that he left the 112 and only changed the 0.7 to 0.3, which happened to coincide with the frequency of the VOR of Matsapa. It was this incorrect manipulation of the systems that led the crew to make a course change. As they were “distracted” in the cockpit no one verified the change of frequency. One of the basic rules is that, whenever something is changed in the cockpit, this action has to be verified and accepted by the other pilot. None of this was done.
These were the immediate causes of the accident, but there were other factors that also contibuted, such as crew fatigue, the lack of reserve fuel, the lengthy inactivity of the crew, a lack of verification of the flight simulator flight training, etc. An aviation accident never occurs in isolation. It is always the accumulation of events that ends in tragedy. I do not want to be arrogant, but my experience of 31 years in aviation as well as participation in aeronautical accident investigations gives me the liberty to speak on these matters.
After so many years of the ANC being in power in South Africa and despite the many investigations on the part of the new South African authorities, whether at the level of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission or by the police mandated by President Thabo Mbeki more than two years ago, no vestige of an attempt by the South African authorities of the former regime to interfere in this flight has been found. The conspiracy theories therefore are circulated by untruthful so-called internal experts, which is very suspicious and without content. The facts speak for themselves ........
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by PJL » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:10 am

pongopilot, this is the 1st time I have read a bit of sense on this subject since it has happened. Thank you for sharing this information with us. =D> =D> BTW welcome to Avcom. :D

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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by Snoopy » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:10 am

soloflyer2002 wrote:Don't know if anyone else picked on this bit that still puzzles me
In the beginning of the show, they talk about an NDB - even the CVR playback mentions the pilot saying something about ther being no NDB
Next minute, pictures of a PVOR (Portable VOR?) is shown and discussed.
So, was it an NDB or VOR? :roll:
probably was someone with a flash light , going round in circles....shouting daaa...daa....dit....daaa
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Unread post by kevinbark » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:20 am

\m/ <(-_-)> \m/
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by Leo Theron » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:50 am

The best source of this information is the Accident report. The FACTUAL information is in there, signed off by the South African group, the Mozambicans and the Russian group of specialists. You can then go and use this information do do your own findings.

For example, you will find the CVR transcript in there... WORD FOR WORD. For the last 31 minutes.

In there is also the flight path followed by the aircraft.

The most important part in there is that the CREW did nothing to fly the aircraft. NOTHING. After the commander retarded the one throttle to start the decend, NOTHING HAPPENED in that cockpit. No checks no nothing only hte turn initiated by the Navigator onto a radial that was NOT identified.

The beacons that is being reffered to here is in all cases VOR's. The aircraft was fitted four VOR selectors, controlling two receivers. What was selected and was being received was indicated with a selection of lights on the panel.

The reason for the turn is obvious if you understand multicrew selection of equipment, ID's, cross checks and use. But this will only be really clear if you look at the FULL picture of the flight, and if you check the track flown by the aircraft in its last minutes... and the selection of the VOR's that were on the panel after the flight.

If you are interested, you will have to read the full report - but no-one is interested in that, since it is really hard work! It is better to speculate...
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by kudu177 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:58 am

Leo Theron wrote:The best source of this information is the Accident report. The FACTUAL information is in there, signed off by the South African group, the Mozambicans and the Russian group of specialists. You can then go and use this information do do your own findings.
I've seen the CVR transcript. But where can I get a copy of the report?

thanks

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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by Snoopy » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:10 am

OK... so the question is just who is behind this slanted TV program and why, the ....timing, politics etc.... to what end. :idea:

Perhaps time to take the SABC to the Press Ombudsman and the Broadcasting Complaints Commission for broadcasting blatant political propaganda..the report is out ect, yet the government and its media goes on spending tax payers money on a witch-hunt.
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Unread post by kevinbark » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:14 am

\m/ <(-_-)> \m/
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by Snoopy » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:15 am

kevinbark wrote:Its election time Snoopy. Watch the Helderberg also pop up again soon.
Eish ja...and the "crimes" of the bush war...jada jada... :roll:

Also time to renew my TV license next month... with all this cr*p they continue show why should I...only because es da lawh...their programs gets worse by the week.... :evil:

Isn't e-tv free.. :twisted: :idea:
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by BenSmit » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:50 am

As far as I know the CCB did not exist at the time (1986) and it was toward the very late 1980's that they were formed, although I will concede that there were goings on under a different banner at the time. With respect to a number of CCB people that were professional, most of the "footsoldiers" were of questionable morals and background. I am not jumping to believe them.

If they were reconaissance regiment the would be referring to their unit as 5 recce, (Phalaborwa) for instance and not as "special forces" (that is a very wide term). I dont believe a word these guys say, even they dont know what they are saying. As for Prof Andre "Everything is a conspiracy" Thomashausen, I have met him and if I had any doubts before, then it has now been removed. Andre, I hope you read this, you have discredited yourself with this.

We as aviators and clear thinking people know that all of this is Bull! Why would we mistrust the findings of a reputable international board of enquiry and believe the babblings of a reprobate? And if there is doubt, why not appoint a second qualified, transparent commission (not behind closed doors TRC!)

Interestingly in the article posted here there is reference to alcohol use by the crew, I had heard this at the time and I have personal experience of flying with russian crews on IL76's where the crew had consumed a bottle of Vodka among 7 while waiting for the aircraft to be loaded and then took off.

Thats the end of my 5c worth
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Re: Samora Machel Crash Documentary on SABC 3 at 21:30 Tonight

Unread post by Snoopy » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:59 am

bjs, the structure you are referring to was huge.... and it had substructures etc...however trying to frame the CCB, SSB or a RR unit or SADF for this....its just a witch hunt. And ask the freedom fighters the AyEnCee had their own "justified" structures.

Whomever is behind this is just trying to find a scapegoat....again. :roll:

Classic denial ...
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