Jabiru Service Bulletins

Australian designed and manufactured Jabiru Aircraft/

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antonvalks
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by antonvalks » Wed May 09, 2012 10:38 am

bluesmancoops wrote:have just had the 1000 hr overhaul plus blueprinting etc at nearly R30k only 3 weeks ago, and am I now expected to pay for a trip to Jabiru plus an inspection due to incompetence by an AMO????
Surely this should fall under some guarantee - If you take your car in for new rings and a week later they say they might have put the wrong rings in - would you expect to pay for their error??
My thoughts exactly. The responsible AMO should foot the bill!!!
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bluesmancoops
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by bluesmancoops » Fri May 11, 2012 1:51 pm

everything gone very quiet here
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by ZuluBen » Fri May 11, 2012 3:17 pm

Gone quiet because we are all getting our work done so that we can go the the hangers and change the offending circlips! :wink:
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wynand
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by wynand » Sat May 12, 2012 10:20 am

Also, waiting to hear the outcome of the research into the matter by the factory, and whether reliable circlips have been identified and sourced?
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by S Ranger » Sat May 12, 2012 11:20 am

Hi gentlemen,

My plane, a J160, fell on the 29 april due to circlip failure. My pax and I walked away with minor cuts and bruises but the plane was severely damaged. the engine had 56.1hrs since pistons were replaced in George. On Monday I travelled to George and the problem was identified with strong possible solutions to correcting the fault.

My advice is get those circlips checked without delay, I was lucky!!
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by Ladybird » Sat May 12, 2012 5:26 pm

In response to all of the above:
- Agreed - one would expect a service provider to offer to do work of this nature at his expense
- All very well for those who have the technical skills or motivation for whatever reason,to don their overhauls and do the job themselves as implied -this is however not a reasonable expectation of a customer who is entitled to expect a professional back up service and guarantee on workmanship paid for especially that done by a regulated provider
- Research seems to have been done and from what one can glean, given that the Oz factory has chosen to not issue a service bulletin,but only an advisory note on how to CORRECTLY handle and install the circlips, the current need to inspect and replace the circlips as per SB10 issued in the RSA appears to be due to the potential incorrect installation in the first place as evidenced by reports of incidents on this forum( I believe some have suffered two separate failures)Whether the quality of the parts is suspect ,is not clear- although the installation of new circlips(same or different?) is called for in the SB
-S Ranger - good to hear you and your pax are OK
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wynand
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by wynand » Sun May 13, 2012 12:12 pm

S Ranger: "Lucky", you say. I would say there is a good deal of pilot skill involved in executing a forced lob that you can walk away from. Well done!

Ladybird: You voice reasonable expectations. With no disrespect, mine are different:
I witnessed gudgeon pin circlip installation in the engine workshop in George before the issue was identified. The procedure was compliant with the procedure detailed in the JAB Engine Overhaul Manual at the time, I checked. Can't ask for more than that. Subsequently, JAB Aus issued a casual letter, essentially revising the procedure. JAB SA went further than that and issued a mandatory Service Letter. I didn't expect that, but I am now convinced it was the right thing to do.

Engines and maint/overhaul procedures evolve for the better. No brand of engine is immune to glitches along this path.

A litigious public has resulted in the discontinuation of some fantastic aircraft. Those blik airies that remained in production are horribly expensive to purchase and maintain. Ironically, in spite of their high cost, they still suffer SB's.

In my opinion, If we dump all this at the factory's door, we'd be undermining their sincere and so far successful effort in providing the best value for money, yet (arguably) the safest aircraft range on the planet.
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by bluesmancoops » Sun May 13, 2012 6:25 pm

In my opinion, If we dump all this at the factory's door, we'd be undermining their sincere and so far successful effort in providing the best value for money, yet (arguably) the safest aircraft range on the planet.[/quote]

With all due respect Wynand - you did not spend R30k 3 weeks ago on a complete top overhaul and get absolutely no guarantee / warrantee - no answers to calls or emails - for me that is one heck of a lot of money to pay "qualified professionals" to do a job and then get told - sorry we might have got it wrong but at your own expense please check our work for us to see if we did, and if we did, just fix it yourself - oh and by the way if anything should go wrong with the engine after that it is your responsibility because you opened it.

This is surely not the kind of service one expects from a factory like Jabiru!!!!!
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by ZuluBen » Sun May 13, 2012 11:29 pm

Mike, with respect, you did not check your facts.

Wynand actually actually DID spend more than R30K at the factory VERY recently, about 40 days ago, like me and many others.

Personally, I appreciate the frankness of the Factory in informing us of this, to make our flying safer.

The fact that we have to open up and replace circlips does not cancell or negate the R30K worth of work that you have had done.

Frankly, the SL calls for 7 hours work, at a rate of about R450? per hour if done at George or Rhino Park, about R3K? plus maybe a few incidentals? That is less than a battery change on my Cessna!!
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by abezzi » Mon May 14, 2012 8:18 am

bluesmancoops wrote: With all due respect Wynand - you did not spend R30k 3 weeks ago on a complete top overhaul and get absolutely no guarantee / warrantee - no answers to calls or emails - for me that is one heck of a lot of money to pay "qualified professionals" to do a job and then get told - sorry we might have got it wrong but at your own expense please check our work for us to see if we did, and if we did, just fix it yourself - oh and by the way if anything should go wrong with the engine after that it is your responsibility because you opened it.
This is surely not the kind of service one expects from a factory like Jabiru!!!!!
Sorry guys, but if what Ben posted in another thread is 100% true, and I believe it is, why we should blame the factory or even asked them to pay for the SL bill? I don't know how is the legislation/law in SA, but I'm 100% sure that in Italy no lawyer, judge, whatsoever would be able to force the factory to pay it!

"The problem has been identified as a batch of "dud" circlips that were supplied to Jab Auz and then passed on to Jab SA. These clips were bought in good faith from a reputable supplier, who himself obviously were short changed."
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by wynand » Mon May 14, 2012 9:54 am

True, I also had an overhaul done.
At my request I was the designated "appy" and I assisted with and witnessed the whole process. One of my "duties" was to check the gudgeon pin circlip installations after having being briefed how to do so. This was before the circlip issue emerged.

Folks, I assure you, the installation was done in strict compliance with the JAB Overhaul Manual.

Subsequently, there was a circlip failure in Oz and at about the same time in SA (Ben) and then another (S Ranger). JAB Oz issued an informal letter, detailing circlip installation, implying that overhaulers might be using incorrect procedures. JAB SA, on the other hand, investigated and found that certain circlips themselves were at fault. I believe the suspect batch is still being tracked/narrowed down.

Unlesss you have absolute certainty that you're not affected, I suggest you have youre engine checked out by a competent AMO/AP.

Like Ben says, the overhaul is not invalidated. Its nothing unusual for an aircraft owner having to comply with a service letter that results from a glitch in the engine development process.
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by Christie » Mon May 14, 2012 12:54 pm

wynand wrote:Unlesss you have absolute certainty that you're not affected, I suggest you have youre engine checked out by a competent AMO/AP.
Wynand, do I take it that the factory in George isn't necessaraly the most competent "AMO"?
Should they with there first point of contact to Jabiru AUS, not have the best first hand info of these procedures?
If I read the bulletin posted by the big boss of Jabiru SA correctly, it is more an installation error than a faulty circlip. The problem (according to the bulletin) comes if the circlip is installed in an incorrect manner (@ a cost of R450/hr), and this then immediately forgiven(by putting out a bulletin) installer, installs them incorrectly and in the process cause a R150k damage with possible loss of life or injury. Sorry if I missed something, but faulty parts or a faulty pair of hands shouldn't be excused just by putting out a bulletin. Come on Jabiru, take responsibility! (Remember Toyota pulling in 2 yrs production vehicles with their wheels on the ground to eliminate as possible faulty component)
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by abezzi » Mon May 14, 2012 6:52 pm

Christie wrote:
If I read the bulletin posted by the big boss of Jabiru SA correctly, it is more an installation error than a faulty circlip. The problem (according to the bulletin) comes if the circlip is installed in an incorrect manner...
Where do you read that? :?: :?: :?:
I don't see that they mention the installation nor that the circlip are faulty...


"Recently an engine suffered ejection of a circlip allowing the gudgeon pin to move eventually jaming and breaking the conrod. The engine had significant hours on it but had recently had new pistons fitted. On investigation it was noted that the piston showed signs of wear on the piston circlip groove. Other circlips were able to rotate, thus allowing premature wear of the piston groove..."
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by bluesmancoops » Tue May 29, 2012 10:12 am

I have to say that my faith in Jabiru has definitely been restored, they have decided to send their mechanic to us to repair the fault on our engine which means BIG KUDU'S and thank you to you guys. I look forward to reporting here that our baby is running beautifully again.

regards

Mike
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Re: Jabiru Service Bulletins

Unread post by bluesmancoops » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:00 pm

I have received a letter from Jabiru SA explaining that the problem does lay with them regarding our engine but with Jabiru in Australia and I therefore retract all statements I made on this forum and publicly apologise to them

regards

Mike Cooper
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